System Messages

This forum is for members of the Apiary Investment Fund. To learn more about how to get involved, sign up now or fill out the form below and preview the training right now!

Ave win > ave loss


Ave win > ave loss

Frankly I'm getting sick of trying to pass this. One loss can make you fail this. I've been spending months trying to get this. Why am I having to waste my time trying to pass this?

Wed, 11/13/2019 - 8:14am

This is a very important step. It will allow you to increase your capital instead of losing all your money.
I passed this step, then I lost it. so I am working on consistency in my decisions..



99 wins at $4.00
1 loss at £5.00

win = $396
Loss = $5.00

Failed again. Seems kind of stupid to me.

Brian Unknown

If you have a high win percentage as your example suggests you can try to lose intentionally.
I put on positions with low commission and volitility and tried to get -2 cents. It worked for me
and I still met all the other metrics.


I've looked at that. I trade mostly GBPJPY and looked at EURUSD for low risk small losses. But if you need to do this kind of thing, what is the point of the whole thing. You also have to take into account that you are dealing with a moving average. Because of this just a few trades can turn everything upside down.

Brian Unknown

I can't say I understand the point of that metric. I have know people to make money having an average loss higher than an average win. I also know people that make money with win percentages lower than 50%. Anyway at Gold 1 and Gold 2 the computer evaluates your metrics so, either you take years conforming you trading style or you trade for the metrics.

David C

Wow what great trading! Make a phone call to Apiary, I'll bet they can get you thru that problem. Wish I was doing so well.


The point of this requirement. Is to develop a standard for no greater loss than your average wins. In other words if your taking on trades with a ratio of 6 pip win to 5 pip loss, plus add the cost of the entry and exit transaction. It’s about the same. Perhaps looking for opportunities in the market that produce higher win to loss ratios is a safer way to increase average win vs average loss.

It’s particularly difficult when each trade has an initial cost just to enter each time, and one has to hold a position long enough to account for whip saw price action which takes on negative intrinsic value, the thing is one may have greater loss than the profit target through market volatility. So it’s almost impossible to not see greater intrinsic loss throughout the duration of the trade.

Even a break-out strategy will have price swings putting the trade in the red for a price cycle.


No David, that was just an example of how messed up it is.

I'll explain my problem. I cannot trade each day, and when I do I may only be able to trade for an hour. I trade the GBPJPY. On average the price moves 5 pips once a position is opened. I however need to use a 6 pip stop. When I trade I want to make 10 to 20 pips, but will get stopped out mostly before that happens. And most of the time the price will just move sideways. So I need to close the position when I have 2 to 4 pips lets say. I make more wins than losses on days when I have enough time to make up any losses I may make to begin with. If I leave a wider stop, it just makes the average loss even worse. I have made a lot of large losses trying different ways to trade. I'm currently $124 down on my $10,000 Gold 1 account with 1,169 trades. This figure doesn't concern me because it would be easy to make back and was caused by these stop outs that could have been avoided. I'm also not going to change the currency pair because I know this one really well. Todd Granthem who does the Daily Forex Fanatics admits that he would fail, yet makes a lot of profit each day using his method of trading.


just pass it opening 0.01 and closing them with a few cent loss.
The task is meant to practice to apply smaller sl than tp.
But as you said,its about numbers in average.When you riskmore you get more,when you are wrong you lose more per position.Dividing the positions into small ones might help also.i didnt spent much time and just did what was necessary.


Well I passed it today and got to Gold 2. I now have to do the same again. I expect that I will handle this more easily now unlike before where I wasn't thinking about this problem too much when I started Gold 1. Its an interesting problem because it's a combination of two requirements, Average Win > Average Loss is a moving average while Wins > Loss is not. I think this was done to prevent manipulation. If you try to make lots of small losses to reduce the average, you may have wins drop of from the start of your 100 trades.


Congratulations on Gold 2.

You may find the following interesting: