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Gold II hell!

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Gold II hell!

Well I’ve been in Gold II for several months and now, in spite of having finished all but three of the targets, I have almost blown half the account and am swiftly losing any hope of getting funded. Do any of you Gold III gurus have any advice for me. I have crowned myself THE worst trader in human history. I guess I’m either not figuring out my mistakes or not learning from them. But I’m really close to giving up altogether. Any advice gratefully received. If I really can’t turn things around soon, I’ll have to give up. I can’t waste my time on something I can’t do!

Mon, 12/10/2018 - 7:08pm

Well Hewitt, looks like you were right. I've done about as badly as could be expected, reverting to type, and now will have to wait till tomorrow to do anything! I've lost count of the days I've lost over 5% now! As I said at the top of the thread, I am officially the worst trader in history! I seem to prove it almost every day! Just wish people would believe me! Lol!



"I am ..... " Just wish people would believe me! "

Well, looks like whatever you tell yourself you believe

Take a break, read a good book. I've been reading this one the past couple of days, really good!

It helps ...

(just google it, easy to find)

financial freedom.jpg

Wow, I feel really bad now, I totally jinxed this! For once I got it right, now if only I had made some money off of that !

Thing is, you say you are the worst trader, but in fact, your actual trade was not bad. Your entry was excellent (not sure though what you trigger was) with minimal draw down, but the issue came in with management.

You went to the polar opposite of your normal trading, and this time went for the home run, a major one given the conditions, and this went for minimal management, and got hammered by the "set & forget" style, which, for me, also doesn't work.

You stated that you would potentially not move your stop until near target, or even at all. i.e. you wanted to use the set&forget style, and this is what happens, sometimes (often) market will go in your favour, then reverse to a full stop-out. Using that style, you need to be able to handle this mentally (I know I cannot), so in reality, you did great, you put on a trade, you followed your plan (hands off till near target), unfortunately market reversed, after lets face it, 40 odd pips into a 225 pip target, so not much in your favour, and stopped you out.

The reason you feel a failure is because this was a one off thing, first time, a quick stab at something, as opposed to being a trade that fitted into a plan that you have back-tested and/or traded numerous times.

In fact, IMO, you did very well here, as you followed your plan as such.

This shows why it is so important to have a plan, or a manner of entering and managing a trade that you have at least some idea that will end in a positive expectancy, either from trading or back-testing, as it gives you the confidence to shrug this off (and that is much easier said than done!)

That said, lets look at the trade (this will come from my POV of course, others will disagree) .

Your entry was 1.13436 I think, and based on your comment, I surmise that your stop was around 1.1335/4s (around the daily low of 22nd), as I don't think it had gone down to 1305s yet, so around 12 pips.

Your target was up around 1580s, which is +- 240 pips, so in essence you were gunning for a 20R trade, which is very extreme.

I can fully understand why you would be gunning for that, as a one off big win to recover your account, but in essence against the backdrop of the market and such a outlier return, it was basically a gamble, so again, this trade does not made you a terrible trader, your gamble just didn't pay off.

I find for the most part, aiming for those big wins doesn't pay off, especially when your phsyc is in the position were you are now, where you cannot handle the strings of losses that will come with it. It can be better to manage your trades sort of level to level, either taking some off or managing stops as market stalls or breaks successive areas.

At the point you were up 40 pips, if your stop was were I guess, that means you already had 3-4R, which alone is a fantastic return.

And here is where another problem comes in. You are trading your P&L, you look at $27 and think "this helps nothing to get my balance back to $1k, I must hold for a decent return".

What you need to do is not focus on the money, but the returns of the individual trades. So if your stop was say $8, when you were up $27, that was over 3 times your risk, a 3R return. Which is a fantastic return, do 3R wins on your funded account and be Ron's best friend!

You took a minor level on the H4, and expected it to trigger a very large move up, which is pretty unlikely.

What you might find would work better is to rather aim for smaller targets, and rather go for the next level or so. If you choose trades that never have a potential of less than say 1.5R - 2R, you stand a great chance of moving forward. Over a series of trades this will flip your stats, and you will make funded (again you won't recover your $1k, but again this it totally irrelevant, what matters is making good trades with decent R)

For example (and this is terrible as it seems like hindsight trading!), if we ignore the support at 1355s (the reason I would not have taken this trade), we could surmise the area above the high at 1390s and below the shooting star at 1395 is a likely target for price, as market likes to return to the initiation point of breakout moves.

That is a 3R target, which is significant, so a great trade.

Market then moves up quickly, a good sign, it proceeds to stall a little but over Asia so to be expected. No real oppertunity to move the stop yet.

Next bar goes straight to target. Here you could opt to close only half the position, and move the stop for part two under that thrust bar (where I suggested your stop go this morning) in hopes that this will be a breakout to upside, but you would have to be happy to give back a lot of P&L as happened.

I would take my 3R at 1390s , and if the market broke out, would try to find another entry long , but that me, as I don't like giving back P&L.

That is kind of how I think you could play it, maybe try the higher time frames, H1 and above, gives you more time to think and analyze, perhaps play more pairs, but don't go for home runs, focus on trading level to level and trades that offer at least 1.5R+, with some management, not super aggressive, but never let a trade get up to with range of your target then come back and stop out.

I know advice before was to watch just one pair, but that was when you traded M1, if you are going to trade H4+, you will likely be better watching a few pairs, otherwise the lack on action on just EU will have you taking poor trades out of desperation.


Hmmm, thanks Mark - yep, you've given me plenty to think about there! Thanks! Yep, I had a stop just behind the previous low on Monday - I think it was 12 pips from memory - exactly where it stopped me out this morning! Ouch!


TH wrote "I find, for the most part, aiming for those big wins doesn't pay off" you may find a few folks that will not agree with that sentiment. My first two overnight trades today already closed at the designated 50P TP. Two I closed manually and 5 will run to 5 am CST. I have been having some good luck with my first week in going for the 50 pips open white space trading.

The biggest issues I have found is entering at the right time of the day to coincide with the 24-hour cycle, having enough patience to wait for the trade to mature. When planning to make sure there is enough open space and trend direction to go your direction. Also as I discovered Tuesday don't forget about the news releases.

To date, I have zero skill in going for 100 plus pips but I am learning and getting 1/2 way there a few times daily.
That said you might check out AllenGold thread "Ride the Waves" for long term trades, he gets it done.


I have the opposite problem i have no problem going for 100 plus pips. But i really suck at scalping. I caught a 420 pips on the usd japy

Screenshot (19).png

Wow 3trfx - I'm speechless! Lol!


i am not a profitable trader trader yet . but little by little i am finding out what works for me...


3trfx, yes but you have a few very good long term trades in the image would you share the method used for your long term?


let your trades breathe


@Rookie Definitely you're right, I did add a disclaimer to my post! But what important is what you say, space, i..e a target reasonable to the market, and the below ...

@3trfx Nice trades, I am going to use your trades simply to illustrate, I'd use mine but there's not enough data and you'd be too busy laughing at my bad trading to focus on the post ;) , its not meant as a criticism to you personally

The point I was trying to make is focusing on the R of the trades, and not the P&L (pips or money). There is an unhealthy focus on this forum on making ludicrous amounts of pips, and little focus toward R used to do that.

The number of pips someone makes on a trade is totally irrelevant.

What matters is what was your R? How much did you risk to make that gain?

I was not saying don't aim for 100 pips targets, I was saying don't aim for home runs, John had a 12 pip stop and gave back 4R batting for a 20R win (against the strength with numerous trouble areas in the way over the Davos conference and gov shutdown). His _return_ was huge at 4R, the fact that is was 40 pips and not 400 is totally irrelevant.

Looking at your trades (just thumb-sucking) I see 80/90/100 pips losses, so your 100-400 pip wins are a 1-4R return (great trades), so whilst your pip count is high, compared to the risk taken, your trade made the same return as Johns if he had closed it at the suggested target.

Same as in Rookies example, if he risked 50 pips to make that 50 pip win, he make the same return as me this morning, when I took 5 pips of my part 1, because I risked 5 pips, we each made 1R. If he risked 100, the he had a 0.5R, which is actually poor then, if he risk 10 then its 5R and he's the man!

Ditto for draw down, your history shows a -600 pip draw down, which would sound huge to some, but because your risk 100 odd at a time, this is within reason, its only a 6-7R loss, and something you could make back. If I had a 600 pip draw down, I'd be dead.

Its all about R (for the most part), that is what matters.

So my point was, forget this focus on pips and money etc and focus on taking good trades with a decent return, and avoid outliers. Right now he will benefit more (psychologically I think) from a few nice 1-2R winners. If the trade has a 10 pip stop and 20 pip target or a 100 pip stop and a 200 pip target is not relevant (from a R pov, not from a market structure pov).

I suggested avoiding very high R trades, like 12 pip to make 240 simply because in this mindset, would you be able to handle missing that target 6 or more out of 10 times? Even if its makes money in long run, what do you think a 10 trade loosing streak (easy to get on a 40% strike rate) would do to someone who already thinks they suck?


trade only the D1 . look for a break of the 20sma. look for stoch 20,3,3 to me over sold or over bought. if brake above and stoch over bought go long. if break below and stoch oversold go short. take two positions. stop 1.5 ATR. take profit position 1 at 1ATR . Position 2 to break even and let run.......

Screenshot (21)_LI.jpg

Thx TH,

3trfx, I do use the D1 and 21HAM and 200 HMA and CCI. Works fair so far but I haven't let it go past 50TP.
I have a risk aversion to really large stop losses.


I take 1% risk per position. it is a very low time consuming, low stress strategy. it does require lots of patience


just use very low risk and give it a shot


very good point TraderHewitt. is not about pips, but risk to reward ratio. I just suck at low time frame trading.LOL


I don't use 1 but 1/4 of 1% but I will place at least two trades per pair then wait. And no more than 4 pairs in total. Two usually correlated and two not correlated.

screen shot.JPG

3trfx, the thing i notice with your trades...

- either they hit your stop or they hit your take profit

that's powerful.

thanks for sharing the order history snapshot.


"focus on taking good trades with a decent return, and avoid outliers" ...a great point traderhewitt

the challenge is, having a plan, a process and a proven setup...without those elements being in place, it's a roll of the dice, and emotion can end up being the guiding force.


How would we define an outlier trade before the trade is entered?


yes burton... after 3 and a have years trying to figure this out, i have come to a conclusion.... Stick TO THe Plan. there was a reason why my stop was there. so I let it play out. some times price comes my way some time it does not. but my reward is alway better than my risk.


the less you mess with your trades the better


"How would we define an outlier trade before the trade is entered?" ...rookie, for me, that simply means sticking with the high probability setups.

the thing is, more often than not, a trader doesn't truly know which setup is the higher probability or worse, they simply don't know when the chart is telling them...



Burton let's define the high probability setups with tools that we have available.
I revert back to Shawn's train-train station example of the train slowing to a train station and pausing for a refill, then fully charged and breaking away from the train station with gusto.

As a simple person we then just need the road signs of the market structure as reported by the candles. We do not a great depth of artifacts here just a basic understanding of a few candles and basic market structure in patterns these candles make.


okay, if you want to go that route, if i'm understanding you correctly, then it would be the following...

- first: identify a tradable pattern
- second: identify the trigger

just because a trader has identified a tradable pattern and maybe even, as a result, a sense of direction, that does not guarantee that a "trigger" will occur.

to trade such a pattern without a trigger, definitely changes the probability of a predictable outcome.

while the language used, "outlier", may seem different, statistically, the outlier is nothing more than a result that falls outside of the of primary clustering of results.

this perspective can be applied to both the outcome of a trade, as well as a point of entry.

beyond that, i really don't know that i have anything to add.


many use a trend line as a trigger.
Shawn uses a mental trend channel and the mean, then its a matter of percentage to place trades in front of the in his case reversing p[rice action where he built a position.

Many traders including my self run into the issue of running after PA which inadvertently means statistically your halfway to being left behind.
It would be helpful if you could see a spreadsheet of the next pip/candle probability.
Obviously, 1 candle in a row if very high, two not so much, 3 again even less but after that, the drop off is rapidly accelerated.
Hence the three bar reversal.

Now the subject can get deep long because we get into the probability of trend continuation and reversal according to time slicing.
This where Jeff's CATT class left off this am.


interesting, i was going to mention the 3 candle reversal...i heard shawn suggest that all reversals lead with the 3 bar reversal, and in truth, they don't.

nate also makes it clear, look for a high probability pattern/setup, and then define your trigger...something like the 3 bar reversal.

the difficulty with being late to the party is that behavior leading up to the setup is not being understood, it's one of those moments where...

- you are most right, when the trade appears to be most wrong

meaning, you can wait for confirmation, or learn to leap and then how to manage what happens after the leap.

predictable doesn't mean being right, it simply means that there is a higher probability over choosing a random entry point...or to say it another way...

- there is an edge

it's bit like watching jeff trade news events. he does his best to predict and then the rest is all about managing the trades.


I totally understand. I too am in Gold II hell. Nothing that I used to get to G2 was working anymore. I was on my way to being funded in 90 days. Then I got to a point where I thought the software was rigged to be different for G2!! Could this be? Has anyone felt the same? LOL I mean, at one point I would put orders in, get filled, and the market would turn, and make a direct line to my stop, almost immediately. I was like 'whoa..... how can that even be real?' What are the odds of that happening with any consistency? But then I thought it may be because of the holidays, or end of year pressures. So now I keep my stops way far away, like Shawn does... lesson learned.

In hindsight, here was another mistake that I wanted to warn others about....

Since I was struggling, I went to the forum and looked for guidance, and possibly another good strategy to try in order to power through the last hurdle to funding..... I found some seriously terrible strategies that were offered, that I kept trying, until I just threw them in the trash heap! No mas! Big time bad strategies! I wasted a lot of time on these awful strategies that I saw ... thinking that they were 'what everyone else was using'.. NO... it's not...

Warning: half of the strategies offered by novice traders are worthless! They will find out soon enough, I'm sure of it! You should employ strategies that will HELP you! Not all of them will. It's important to know that just because a strategy is posted here, that does not mean it's a good one!! 'Beware of posts that may not serve you', I guess, is the lesson to be learned here. Trust yourself, and be confident that you can do this in a fashion that suits YOU. Stick with what works for you. Yes, I know... we've read this before, just another reminder..

Happy trading ...


Just so long as your writing about G3 hell...LOL


Just about had it today.. then got caught in the FOMC debacle!.. ouch

I just found your advice, Rookie, about checking the calendars... it's such a simple thing to do.... I just lost track of the time of day... DOH! .. oh well, it happens to the best of us.. tomorrow is another day.... I hope to recover and get to G3 asap.....

Happy trading.....


"half of the strategies offered by novice traders are worthless!" ...half, lol, i'm sure it's between 80% and 90%.


"got caught in the FOMC debacle" ...sorry to hear. still, sounds like you are close to g3. wishing you the best. =)


3trfx, very interesting bio, "Orange City Poker Room" !


this morning, i came across the following quote. given what TGI1225 shared, the quote makes for a great addition and something worth considering...


yes sir here in the orlando area

Gary Styles

Sometimes taking a break is good. Make a strong and scheduled commitment to return though, otherwise you're just quitting. Coming back can reduce noise and almost make it feel easy. all the best x


@tubamirabilis here is the attachment I mentioned my PM

Demon Finder.JPG

traderhewitt, nice share =)


Hopefully I will be using these comments soon. :-)


Ha - Like that Mark! Excellent!


Here we go gold1 :-)


congrats fgolshan!!!


Check out my "The Honey Trap" Strategy. i'm sure it will help you out. don't beat yourself up either. Find what works and stick to it. but check out my Theory.. it just may help you out


Having a little difficulty accomplishing the Positive Profitability. Anybody know just HOW MUCH it needs to be? I AM showing a positive
value of just above $2, WHAT does it take to get this one done? All other tasks are complete. (I'm in G1 trying to get to G2)


Actually what I was having difficulty with was "Positive Expectancy" (Not Positive Profitability)
Anybody know what is expected as far as results regarding this challenge to finish it?


I only had like $0.10 positive in G2, as I made a mistake in the beginning following a EA not suitable for G2, then I sized down and traded my normal way, so just ground back the loss, so afaik you will get the acheivement provided you have a balance even a few cents higher than it was 30 days ago (or your opening balance)

So are you saying your 30 day stats show the expectancy is positive, but you did not get the achievement?


"Positive Expectancy" ...dave_7, there are a couple ways to get there, provided you have a "high probability" setup and you are trading it.

1 - reduce your average losses, by closing your weaker trades with a small loss
- depending on the size of the losses you are wanting to overcome, it could require many smaller/tiny losses
2 - increase your average wins, by holding trades longer, only if profitable, the goal is to capture more pips
- big wins, pip wise, will absolutely change your expectancy

it's a numbers game...

- if your win rate is high, and you are trading a "high probability" setup, consistently in the green, then it may be worth sacrificing many smaller trades, taking small/tiny losses...just make sure you watch your win rate.

- practice capturing bigger profits.


I hope most people can recognize that there are a few people on these forums that make awesome posts on a fairly consistent basis. I would like to give a sincere Thank YOU! You know who you are. I made G3, and couldn't have done it with out your no-nonsense advice! My 2 cents are this: if you are having success, stay on your path. Do. Not. Change. If your path is failing, by all means change it, but stick with what works for you, and listen to the sensible posts like those found here. Most of successful trading, I think, is adapting when losses occur, and sticking with winning when it occurs, just scale up. Starting small will tell you which path you're on... thank you again, and I will definitely be watching for your humbly offered pearls of wisdom!


TGI1225 - I GET WHAT you are saying about feeling it is being rigged.
I'm in G1 and can only place set n forget trades because I am working 2 jobs until tax season is over.
For 2 weeks - I was right on every trade, but they either got stopped out at exactly my stop or it gapped so far in my direction for a bad fill then reversed to my stop. I had about 8 trades in a row do that and I am afraid to set any more trades overnight.
I'm pretty much frozen right now and too afraid to trade.
It wouldn't be so bad it I was wrong on the trades (usually would not even execute so no loss), but to be consistently right and always losing is very discouraging.

Did you ever overcome this? How?

Respectfully - Mike C



Yeah, I hate puking the high/low, and it happens quite often to me to!

The difficult question is is this an anomaly, or is my stop loss in the wrong place.

People will tell you that your trade results are randomly distributed, and whilst true, the market itself is not random in that sense, but a "living" thing (its humans that are making buying/selling decisions even if via an algo) that changes its "personality", and moves quite differently for a period than before, either in volatility, or lack of trends, or unusual number of "failed" breakouts, etc.

So you might find there are period where your system will under perform (losses cluster), and you will have this effect, a larger than usual number of losses. You may not want to change your system, but rather try to see if you can identify the changed conditions and avoid trading (I say this very easily but I think its quite to do before one gets a knock). Or decide if you have the R to simply push through it, as you don't know when it will be good or bad, but this you can only tell if you have traded for a while on that system.

And that leads to the next question, how long have you traded this strategy? How much data do you have?

What often happens is people pick/buy up a system, trade for a week, win, next week get more losses than last weeks wins and bin it and look for something new.

This happens because of course they don't actually know yet what to expect, and haven't given it long enough.

This is relevant to you because your need to also answer the question, is 8 losses in row normal for my strategy? Can I expect this kind of draw at down times, or is this very unusual and warrants deeper than normal investigation?

This can be hard to answer, as you would likely need t have traded of for many weeks to know, or have done a lot of back testing which can be hard when its very discretionary (if its a very mechanical strategy its easy, and if its totally mechanical with no discretion trivial, code it into an EA and run a simulation, that will quickly tell you whats going on)

Now after all that waffle I haven't really said anything useful!

What you might want to do, unless you have much data that tells you everything is fine, and my first hypothesis is right, is investigate where you are entering/exiting.**

Obviously I can't comment (and it would be my opinion only, but that goes without saying) as I don't know your strategy.

The obvious always applies, are you entering or exiting at swing points especially on (or visible on) a higher timeframe (H1 or higher)?

These points are often traps, and it sounds from your comment like you might be getting into the market at a point like that.

There areas are primed for order flow change, as they are battle grounds of stop-losses, buy/sell stops and limit orders being filled as the traders in the wrong get stopped out, breakout traders enter and large traders use both to fill their large orders in the other direction.

People obviously enter here, and make money, but you must be aware of the dangers of these points. Market often moves through them and then reverses, for very valid reasons, none of the bs that gets spread about. Big trades need liquidity to fill their large orders, so they do this at places where there are likely to be a higher volume of market orders the other way.

The other thing that might be happening is you might be trading a system with a fix pip count, i.e. SL is 10 pips or enter when market moves 5 pips over a high, etc.

This is fine, but very mechanical, and obviously whilst it might have worked over the period you did your back test, it can easily stop working as market volatility changes (i.e. it gets quieter and you miss fills, or wilder and it moves so much to stop you out like this).

Personally I don't believe in this, as the market is too dynamic (but that just my opinion), I feel its better to do things as multiples of ATR rather than a fixed number of pips in that case, as it takes volatility into account.

If you do want a fixed number of pips, remember you cannot just cross markets (each market has a differing volatility) and ensure your backtest was over a significant period, if you backtested over just a month say, you might have easily gotten a quiet month. I'd say at least a year if not more (and do a different year to 2018 as well, which I think people in general found a difficult/unusual year, unless your premise is based on the belief those conditions at end of 2018 will prevail)

>>or it gapped so far in my direction for a bad fill

Could you explain this in more detail? I assume you are trading FX? This comment seems odd as fx gaps only on the sunday/monday open (and even that is not a real gap), I don't understand how price can gap up so far over your (i assume buy/sell stop order?) so frequently?

** this assumes a discretionary strategy, if you have a mechanical one do that same, but remember if you change one thing on a mechanical strategy you have a new strategy, and you need to do all your back testing again.


As for me, I trade 0.01 lot each time, and stop los is 9 pip, so not easy to lose that much money.


First day in Gold 2. Ever since I learned how to trade the Wobble, my trading results has improved tremendously.


Well, I'm no nearer my goal! I have bouts of trading well and then have wonderful streaks of stupidity! So now I'm down to $235! Utter madness! So often I end up trading what I assume will happen rather than what I see in front of my eyes! Or I leave trades on for a moment. Take this morning as an example. At 7.50am GMT I see the euro rising. Goody, thinks I, that's the trend set for the day. I'll plonk on a few trades! At 7.55am a friend knocks on the door so I go down increasing S/Ls to 10 pips each just to be safe! Half an hour later I return! OUCH! Then I get it all back trading downwards and make 1.5% on the account! But instead of leaving it there, I carry on, trading what I think will be a reversal the following hour, allowing my trades to continue when the reversal is reversed, losing all the time! Grief! Why? What a plonker! Beware! Do not trade like me! Stick to your strategy and don't think you know better than the market! When will I learn? Soon, I hope! It's called 'utter stupidity'! The silly thing is - I know I can recover if I have the time and revert to the HMA strategy, as I did yesterday from -$4.5%. I ended up in the green after all! Why I don't always try and trade the easy way by just sticking to the strategy in the first place hell only knows. Maybe my brain just isn't wired right to do rules-based trading but I'm hoping to rewire it pretty soon folks!


"So often I end up trading what I assume will happen rather than what I see in front of my eyes!" ...what else is there to say?

"so I go down increasing S/Ls to 10 pips each just to be safe!" is that a safe choice?'re adding risk to the trade?

"Then I get it all back trading downwards and make 1.5% on the account" ...sounds to me, like you're trading "WAY TO BIG".

tubamirabilis, until it really matters, the odds are, the trading habits that are currently in place, for you, will continue.

it's not hell, if you like it there...just saying.


I can only make four trades at any time and I now never trade more than a 0.01 position size. At my size of account, 1% isn't a lot of money! Otherwise, I totally agree with you! Nuts!


tuba in G2 it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is consistency.
Even if you only enter one trade at a time it is the consistency challenge which you must best, mentally.


I know Rookie. I’m determined to do it and I believe I can. I just need a lot more self-discipline in fromt of the charts. I have improved in some respects. I just need to cut trading those losers and be much stricter about when I trade. I’ve got to adopt the attitude that I’m applying for a job with apiary, which, in effect, is true. I’m teaming up with another Gold 2 heller who’s lost more than half of his account and we’re going to mark each other’s weekly homework. No deal is not on the table! lol!


SOunds good here is a suggestion, that you and the GII friend use something like Zoom or team viewer and review the plot trades together. Naturally being gentle but critical.
Don't review just losing trades but winners what happen for a winner and why!.

I know you will be successful its just a matter of giving in to the market.


Interesting Rookie, - can you shed any further light on your suggestion please? I don’t know anything about team viewer or zoom. Thanks.


tuba, do you have a setup, or two that you trade? ...are you trading only those setups?

- do you know the probability of those setups?

also, as for the "reviewing losing" trades...this is probably controversial, don't bother...

- focus only on the trades that work, and what you are doing when it works...then repeat that, over, and over, and over again.

like in life, so too is it true in trading...

"if you get caught up in the psychology, all you will ever see, are the symptoms."

the point...


let go of how you feel, or any "need", "should", or "have to", you believe is critical...heck, let go of belief.

find one successful trade, snapshot it, go into metatrader, and snapshot each candle as the trade progresses, starting with the price chart before the setup showed up...then use the menu options...

file > save as picture

- uncheck "post image online..."

click "ok" button

select a folder

name the snapshot...

- here's and example name; gbpnzd-m5-000

click save

press f12, go to the next price candle


file > save as picture

select the same folder...

for the file name use gbpnzd-m5-001...

repeat, and increment each snapshot file name...


do this until you have capture your setup/trade that worked...

now, press "ctrl" + "e"

goto the folder where you saved the snapshots

now click on the "name" column header, to sort the files...

finally, double click gbpnzd-m5-000

once the snapshot opens, use your left and right arrow keys to step through the setup/trade snapshots

repeat this over and over and over again, do this until you dream of it...

over time it will absolutely change how you look at the price chart...

no psychology, just do the work, and trust the process

no bs thoughts, like, that won't help, or some other limiting thoughts, put the bs on the shelf, and do the work

this is one of the single most powerful tips i can offer you, it doesn't require any skill, any psychology, all you have to do, is repeatedly step through a setup/trade that works.

that's all i got, everything else, that i read, reads more like psychology, and that won't get you anywhere.


Tuba, sorry it took me so long to reply, sometimes the messages don't pop up where I can see I haven't read them.

I assume you know how to use the plot trade tool in Alveo, if not let me know.

I was simply suggesting that you locate a trading buddy that is available the same times you are and spend some time reviewing the plot trades together. Sometimes a different POV can see things to doer is overlooking.

Burton is always full of solid advice!


rookie, definitely a fan of the "buddy trader"...provided each are willing to be candid about what they are observing, and all emotions, and pride are left on the floor, next to the front door.

a definite recipe for serious growth.

great suggestion.


Rookie what is the "Plot Trade tool"? how does it work? what can I accomplish by using it? So many questions, so little time.


PlotTrades is a script you can run in Alveo that will draw your trades onto the selected chart. It will show a line from you entry to your exit. In the chart you want to plot on (make sure it is the right currency pair) there is a little play sign in a rectangle button. Click there and plot trades and enter the trade ID numbers to start and finish. Go to your order history to find all that info. See the attached pic for the button and an example of plotted trades.

Plot trades button.PNG plotted trades example.png

Have you been keeping a trading journal? I find mine to be indispensable to my growth as a trader. On the days I don't record and review my day, I regret it at a later date, wondering what happened. You need to develop confidence in your system. If you keep track of your stats you can gain a lot of confidence from it. I had a big draw down on my account when moving from GI to GII. But I just powered through because I knew that my system is profitable. I could see that I in my journal and notes that I was overtrading and over leveraging. I was not keeping my risk parameters etc. Once I got that straightened out my equity curve has started to reverse. Once you start tracking yourself you notice trends and can hone on what makes your system work and what could use improvement.


Ok this is absolutely where I bow out! Pre-fund account down to $200! That's it!

I'm out of my pre-fund account altogether and going to return to Gold I account. If I can't make that work I'm going to have to give up. I can't waste my time on something where I only demonstrate my talent for losing all the time!


This is an interesting thread. I got funded after 3 months of trading and had big hopes. Then the wheels fell off...account went down to $1500 dollars but I REFUSED TO GIVE UP. THIS IS MY DREAM AND WILL NOT GIVE UP ON IT! It has been more than a year now since i have been funded....and my account turned into the positive this week. I still have trades going and I have not cashed out to get my first profit check....but seeing my account above $2500 is awesome!!! My only suggestion...if you want to make this DON;T GIVE UP. Good luck!!!


Tubamirabilis, Patience is a virtue. Just get a dummy account from an on line broker and keep practicing. I have been at it for two years now and have not shown a profit. Hopefully, the skill will arrive when one least expects it.


Forex is hard, anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you. I've been funded for a bit over a year now. I did well at first, then struggled some, now I'm doing well again. It's easier to trade my style in my MT4 account, but Apairy offers so many advantages that it makes it worth the effort.
Did I mention being a successful trader is hard :) I'm an engineer. I went to about 6 years of college and work for at least 4 years before I was even considered competent in my profession. Why should trading be any different? It is simply unrealistic for me to think that watching a few online videos and click a few mouse buttons will magically turn me into a million dollar trader.
Trading is simply a skill and like every other skill, I have learned, it takes time. Time to learn and more importantly, time to perfect.



gpdno says... " I went to about 6 years of college and work for at least 4 years before I was even considered competent in my profession."

absolutely agree, so very true.


daknowles53, great share.



Here are a some of thoughts:
Practical -
1) Stop trading in your Gold account until you are consistently profitable. Go to one of your simulated accounts and trade there. This would be the equivalent of rehearsal as compared to performance. If you're not getting rehearsal right, chances are performance won't be right either.
2) Trade only .01 lots until you are consistently profitable. AND - trade that .01 lot in a SIMULATED account first, not your gold account.
3) Set a limit for yourself on your daily loss. I see from your Thursday, January 24 post that you have hit 5% loss a number of times. I have a guaranteed way to stop this. When you see "Daily Return:" at -1% close all you trades, stop trading for the day, and go do something trading-unrelated for awhile. You can go back and study your trades and or charts later, but you need to clear your mind and look at the charts with fresh eyes, not the ones that lost 1%.
4) Set a trade or time limit for yourself. For example: If you're trading 5 min or greater charts limit yourself to 3-4 trades per session. If you have 2 or 3 losers in a row (or hit 1% losses) stop for the day. If you have 2 or 3 winners in a row stop for the day. You can consider adjusting these limits when you are consistently profitable for 2-3 months.

Personal Observations
1) Watch Daily Forex Fanatics on a regular basis for good examples of how to read and understand price and how to formulate a strategy based on that understanding.
2) Your trading strategy (how you plan to take money out of the market) and your trading plan (the precise steps you take to implement your strategy) need to be based on your understanding of how the price moves.
3) You are the only one who can explain to yourself how this happens. A music teacher can explain, demonstrate, and help a student to move their fingers correctly over the keys or strings, but it's the student that must actually use their own muscles to move those fingers. It's the same in trading. Instructors can explain and demonstrate, but you will need to figure out a way to make price movement make sense to you.
4) Find a way to make trading enjoyable. I fell in love with trading before I became profitable. I love trading. Even if I have a down period, I always want to trade because I love doing it. I want to get better at it because I love doing it. I study, explore, and experiment with it because I'm interested in it. If I couldn't make money at it, it would be my hobby. You may not need to be head-over-heels about it like I am, but you at least need to like it for itself and not just because of the promise of making money :)

Good luck and happy trading!


Well, I've returned to my Gold 1 account, I've ordered the book Robunited recommended at the top of the page and I've revisited Todd's video on his HMA strategy. I have immediately realised where I have been technically faulty in my entries and setups - there are things I didn't take down correctly first time around. Visiting it again has given me greater confidence I can follow the strategy properly and all I need is to follow it carefully from Monday. This is the point I think I can turn this all around. I've already done a few successful trades with my corrected understanding of Todd's system in Gold 1. Now I just need to practise it until I've got confidence I can mechanically replicate it successfully more times than not!

By the way Greg, believe me, I did about nine years of study to become professional on two instruments, and to gain the highest-level certification just short of a doctorate on both. I know exactly what you're saying! I'm totally with you on that!

Trey and Burton - thanks! Yes I'm definitely going to tighten up - a lot! Discipline, patience and perception is all it should take, and yes, a heavy dose of enjoyment rather than stress! I hope!!!! :-)

Also, the parents of one of my cello pupils have just admitted that they have both been professional traders at big banks in the City. I think they're going to give me some advice and extra reading material after Easter. So that's encouraging too!

Have a great weekend guys!



exciting turn of events...well done john. eager to follow your journey forward. =)


this was a great thread. I'm in Gold 1, and I learnt a lot from comments here. Looks like trade management is more important than actual entry points...


"Looks like trade management is more important than actual entry points..." truth


It's hard to get enough trades in Gold II if you trade on the daily. You can't place too many because of the overall risk allowance. It makes you trade smaller time frames if you want to get 200 trade.


lizdean608, great information.

so, what size are you trading, minis or micros?


I just a few days ago Got to Gold 3.....

The fast way to get the 200 trades for me to is to trade the eur/usd or usd/jpy, in the when they are moving ... like during the European session etc...
I would place about 3 to 5 trades.. all microlots and scalp ...Be careful to analy trade candles to make sure you are entering on the 1 min time frame and 5 min .. and big stops... and only try to get 1 or 2 pips... Practice this first on the sandbox account not your Gold 2 small 1k account... Since you need to make sure your win size is bigger than lose side and thus Entry is Very Very Important... It is easier to sit and watch for the best entry .. even like sit for 10 minutes , if not good then get up do a chore, and come back and see if market is good enough to entry or is all scattered or in consolidation...

Practice , Practice on a sand box account till you get real good at making 200 trades with one micro lot in lets days 2 hrs .... but if you are trading the REal Gold 2 account you can In my opinion only safely trade 50 trades a hour to 2 hours in the European session...and get In And OUt of the Scalp FAST... Practice on sandbox..Now that you go the hang of it go to your Gold 2 account and only put in a one or two or three trades with low spreads like eur usd.. and then if win go again...

Try not to got too fast then you will have to start this 200 think all over again ..and that is what worked for me.
I used to only trade long swing trades before I joined Apiary fund..
These trades in my past would last 5 to 72 hrs ec.. and sometimes weeks...
so I was forced to learn scalping and it seems to work now both ways...
My long trades are not right for Apiary unless I have a big trading account and can count on stops and TP working 100%., so I presently just scalp with Apiary and that is fine and well for me... I get it all done in a hour or two and not days...etc..


congrats rabbitFoxFX, well done.


Second day of going back to strict spreadsheet-keeping! Better outcome than yesterday finishing in green and more winning than losing trades but still, far too many mistakes! Still, a marked improvement on yesterday!


I've got a lot of other stuff to get done this week but my intention is to post my spreadsheets on here at the end of a week or month. So you will all get to see my reports on my own madness! Lol!


stay the course john, stay the course. if you can measure it, you can improve it.

also, there is no level of proficiency, as a trader, that will keep a trader from experiencing errors...some errors, are acceptable, while others shine a light on attention, focus, and preparation...such errors, can be costly.


Cor, consistency is hard isn't it! I've started by working on my last 20 trade stats and focussing on those. As those improve, the last 50 improve and then you think, ooh, I'll start really getting those better! Then you realise the last hundred stats are improving so you work on that. Then you realise your 30-day stats are improving and you're beeline is just one or two ticks away from the big green button...

and shock horror! You're putting so much pressure on yourself to be right every time you don't ruddy trade! You know an opportunity is staring you in the face and you just stare back at the screen thinking 'I might be wrong'! Then it does exactly what you knew it would do and you know you've missed the opportunity! A few weeks ago I'd have just piled a load of trades on anyway, knowing being late into the position isn't the end of the world and it would have whipsawed and I would have got out with a loss cos I'm just like that! Now, if I miss a good entry, I just swear under my breath, walk away from the computer and tell myself off for not taking the obvious opportunity, but glad I'm not losing anything. The flip side of this is, I'm too ruddy scared to trade incase it messes up my improving stats! GRRRR!!!! I guess that's the psychological game, isn't it!

Anyway, I've started reading the Van Tharp book, 'Trade your way to financial freedom'. It's great. First thing I've done, from reading it, is to stop putting TPs. Interestingly, I emailed Todd and he thought my SLs were always too tight. If anything, with one miserable exception when I let three trades drift against me 8 or 9 pips then booked the loss, I keep a maximum of 5 pips SL. and bring them up to break even as fast as the price action will allow me. I'm not really sticking to the HMA strategy at all now. I'm focussing as much on price action as I can. I think it's more reliable, offers more frequent opportunities and is, after all, at the heart of what we try to follow.

If I can constantly improve, allow those winners to run, something I'm still very poor at, and select winning positions carefully so my stats aren't peppered with cutting losers off, I might start turning things round. For the last month or so, I've stopped losing money. I've just been bouncing around between $149-158. If I can get back up to $160 or $170, I'll know I'm starting to get things right. If I can just take the right opportunities, the future's still hopeful. But that's back to the psychology! Dammit this is complicated!


Well I thought I'd just pop in here a mo as I haven't shared much about how I'm doing recently and some might be thinking I'm sort of giving up. I'm not! Another Gold 2 bee and I are sort of watching each others' backs and trying to encourage each other over the line into Gold 3. I'm aware I've been stuck in Gold 2 since around September last year and I don't want to be still in it in September this year. So I'm making a real effort. That said, my special spreadsheet of trades I was making that I mentioned earlier in the thread has flown out the window but in spite of that I'm improving.

My partner bee has sent me a message this weekend sounding a bit despondent about his trading, especially breaking below $500 in his account. I've written a reply that, as I was writing it, made me realise I was writing a pretty good description of what my current approach is so I thought I might share it with you. It's odd because he's fed up with having broken below $500 while I'm pretty upbeat though I'm down to $130. But if it serves to encourage any other Gold 2 bees who are struggling, you may be like me, it may just have to get worse before it gets better, but the worse it gets, the better you will get. Better to make your mistakes in G2 rather than G3, as Burton has mentioned many times!

Anyway, for what it's worth, here's a slightly tweaked version of my message -

'What's your approach? Personally, I'm watching the D1, H4, H1, M5, M1. I look to the D1 for the likely principal direction of the day. I look to the H4 to see if that idea's holding. I look for likely patterns of S&R on the H1 and M5, often also marking the big 000 and 100's numbers. If there's just been a big movement and the start of retracement I add Fib retracement tool to judge the levels price will likely go to. I notice my 200 and 10 HMAs and MACD but don't base my trades entirely on them. I'm looking for patterns, often upward or downward zigzags between S&R, especially on the M5. As soon as it's clear we're in consolidation after a move, I put red lines either side of the zone and rarely dare trade within that zone. I'm waiting, hours if necessary for price to break out. I'm starting to learn to trade in the consolidation zone from the outside in, rather than hoping for breakouts trading outside outwards, if you follow what I mean - a mistake I've taken heavy losses from in the past. I also nearly always cut a trade if it goes more than 3 pips against me. If I don't cut it there, I regret it later! I've stopped using TPs as that helps psychologically to let winners run rather than limit profit. Take care with the first hour of the American Open. It's often crazy and I've watched an interview with some hotshot US trader who refuses ever to trade that hour. Also don't set and forget unless you're in simulated account. It's called a gamble! Keep a hawkish eye unless you know your direction and price cycle very well. I used not to use M1 as I thought it too noisy but I do now and I'm improving because I now understand why things develop the way they do on the M5 candles, which I didn't always understand before.

Also, keep looking at your stats. I am looking more and more at my stats. I aim to keep each 20 trades mainly green. That way I focus on a small, achievable goal and am extra careful only to trade higher probablility opportunities. I'm not talking setups - way too technical for me at the moment - but identifiable opportunities. I'm paying heed to indicators but mainly focussing on price action. I don't have a 'plan' like 'I put on an order after three candles in the same direction' or something. But I have to have a clear reason I can justify to myself in order to put on a trade. Keep each 20 trades as green as poss then look at your stats. Your 100 stats will soon be good. Then all you need to do is repeat until your 30-day stats are good. I'm getting there slowly - hoping the next three weeks will see me over into Gold 3. Also, trade only 0.01 trades and only 1 trade at a time. Only add trades if the first is going well - to strengthen your profit. I'm down to $130 odd and I'm only allowed two trades at a time. It ruddy concentrates your mind! And now I appreciate the luxury I had at the beginning of Gold 2 of something like 10 trades at a time. When you're down to two trades, you have to make them work out well for you! And I'm learning to make do and be positive under great restraint!

The final point is to be observant! Keep looking left to look right. Use the drawing tools to make patterns and levels clearer. And on M5 and M1 use the vertical red line to show the change of the hours. It's really useful to see. I'm in positive expectancy in my last 100 trades now and my PE is improving in last 30 days. But I do have to get over the magic hurdle of more winning than losing - that's hard when I cut losers so short! But with cunning and observation to get the best opportunities I'm pretty sure I can do it. And if I can do it with $130 you can do it with well over $400! Keep going!'

Funny when I re-read that that I realised I was spouting a few things some of you guys have suggested to me here or elsewhere.

Oh, and finally, when I miss a big move as I occasionally do right in front of my eyes, I'm starting to walk away from the computer and do something else for a couple of hours rather than stay, angry and upset trying to capitalise on the last few unpredictable candles of the move. I've had my fingers burned too many times and too upsetting when I've missed a massive opportunity. Walk away and you still have the same money when you return once the market has calmed down. Frankly, I don't really care if I do blow up my entire G2 account at this stage, because the game is not about the destination, it's about the journey and just learning to get better. Nothing happens without an idea! It's the improving quality of my trading ideas and mental approach which will make me into a consistently profitable trader in the end. Mindset and attitude is much of what it all boils down to!


Tuba, way to go! great heart!


great topic Gold II hell, I can relate to that, soon enough I will be out of hell lol