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Hard Lesson Learned

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Hard Lesson Learned

I nearly completed all requirements for Gold 1(I only needed to complete, place 3 trades over 3 weeks) when I noticed that one of my achievements (I think it was Avg win > Avg loss) fulfillment went away. -

So, I made a quick trade that went against me. I closed it out. Made another trade that went against me. OK - So I made a mini trade to catch up. Got hit on that. Then a full lot to catch up. Well, that was going really bad so I made another trade and another and another - and lost $626.

I learned a very hard lesson with this experience. I wanted to get through to Gold 2 and reacted out of frustration. My thought was to simply not close the positions and just wait until they recover - And then the system shut me down for hitting the max loss threshold. This was a lesson learned. I will never, never do this again.

The big thing I did wrong was deviating from my system, which has been working very well, just to get back to where I was, fast.

Fri, 06/15/2018 - 1:42pm

No worries, I almost damage my Gold I, I was getting a little desperate with the missing requirement. Use next week to get back on track. Good luck.


name is patience, i don't have, but the market does teach it, over and over.

I either learn or learn. Patience.

hope it helps.

keep up the good work.


I am guilty of that too. And I keep saying to myself - no more. Then I do it again, with a very slight variation. Then I find another variation. The worst of all is that some of these shortcuts (variations) are partially successful and that gets me thinking - may be I can tweak it and it will work. Nevertheless, it is a wrong thing to do. I hope soon I will be done with all the possible variations.

Don't get dishearted. If you never repeat that, then it was wort the pain, then you are a really fast learner, not like me.


I hear you Billfig. I often need to prove to the market I am right and I often am willing to double down or more to to do so.
When I first started Apiary I was trying to prove to the Aud/usd that it was heading in the wrong direction. Over 4 days and continuous efforts to be right, dumping money into my account and hoping, the margin bell rang and I lost $16k, a 1/3 of my account.
This issue has hunted me through out my time here at Apiary.

Yesterday, I encountered some similar behavior. After 8 days building a nice equity curve just trading small amounts and not much trading. Then the dollar surged into the London close. I began fading the dollar. then becoming more aggressive as things worsened. Well you know how that went, Poorly! I gave almost all the gains back in a couple of hours. That is stubbornest and the need to be right. I broke my daily lost limit, my weekly loss limit. When this need arises all management goes out the window and I rush into the market blindly. Worst I actually know I am f....n up.

I closed my platform down and will not trade again till Thursday of next week.



Hey MarketTango, yesterday was probable a day were many were slaughtered. I just sit back and watched the whole show. I had a horrible experience years ago and I told myself to never ever trade when high impact news. Not worth it.


By thw way, were those 16k real money, just curious.


yes Sir.


Not trading my system always gets me in trouble too.

The more focused I get on getting funded, the better i am at sticking with my system.


To MarketT, all I can say is - OUCH!!!!.


As my trading has progressed,I've come to appreciate the most painful mistakes as the most valuable lessons. When you learn the pain of being bitten due to your mental error and avoid that bite, you are now a better trader.


Hey biilfig, I can relate to all of the above but as yet have not been punished for it. I found myself down a lot and I mean a lot of pips but because I was only trading .01 lots, which is what I have been doing thru the whole Beeline challenge, it gave me time to trade out of trouble, but it took me a full day of scalping, to gradually pull me out of a very deep hole. I wouldn't recommend that style of trading to anyone that dosent enjoy pressure. I have reduced those situations to a minimum and do not wish to repeat the same mistakes to such a level again, but I still find myself having to work out of negative pip situations but not as drastic. What I don't do is change my lot size to try and regain losses, as I mentioned before, my focus during the beeline is pips not dollars. That will come when I am qualified and have total belief in my systems


Thank you all for your comments..

I will recover. Quite simply, I've broken down the $626 loss into a 2 wk recovery objective. 626 / 14 = $44.71 / day profit. If i can do better, that would be great. However, that is my goal at this point.

The Gold 1 challenge looks at $ profit's, not pips.


I'm currently in Gold 1, working on this same requirement. Thanks everyone for the information in this forum.


Here's a tip for all who have noticed that as soon as you enter a trade you find that you are down 1, 2 or 3 pips (or more)

The Bid/Ask spreads will expand and contract throughout the day. In my time zone (New York), late in the PM the b&a can vary tremendously on the same pairs that traded in a close range earlier in the day.

Here's what to do .......................

For each pair on your screen, right click - go to Template setting (on the bottom) then go to the right lower side and click in boxes that say "Show bid line & Show ask line". These lines will then remain on your chart. You will be amazed at how much they can vary throughout the day.

Hope this is helpful.




I had a problem with the last item on gold 1. I whistled thru in a fortnight with 140 trade3s and only 6 losses and one of those was due to alveo going off line and reopening 6 pips down when I had pressed close trade at 1 dollar 30 pips. But as it went off line could do nothing as it took me out as soon as it had reloaded. However, my last problem was that I had so many winning trades that the average loss/wins was taking into consideration losses made way back in silver and possibly bronze so my only recourse was to do what I did in silver ie to deliberately lose 20 odd trades in order to bring the ratio down, which worked in silver and got me out of it. However, this time I queried it three times with the support the last time today and they finally awarded it to me and put me on to gold 2. Obviously no one had thought about a consistently winning account and what to do in the event.. I asked them to review and revise the requirement. Whether they will do that or not I don't know, but deliberately having to achieve losses to meet a requirement seems a bit of an anomaly , when they are trying to make us into winning traders.
Anyone else had that problem?


Ray H,

I did the exact same thing as you to fulfill the requirement. The problem, in my opinion, is that we are navigating blindly to get through the achievement. If the bar to the right of the challenge gave a running total, then we'd know where we stand. I do feel that this should be addressed by the alveo tech people.


Wow, a lot of good examples to learn from. Bottom line is whenever you veer off of the trading plan the chance for substantial loss can increase. Thank you for sharing!


Im in the same boat - I cant wait until I can just trade straight up all the time and not have to worry about some of the stats that are not judging the 2 tp method that shawn uses


Its hard to give money back even if its fake, pride thing i guess. sometimes i just have to step away when i screw up and get my head strait or ill start over trading and trying to guess tops and bottoms to get it back.


How many pips do you use as a stop loss and profit?


Welcome, I had to do the same. In my case I had to place like 38 0.01 losing trades which really makes no sense to me. Also, if you want to now how many you need to lose, you have to download all the history and simulate what will happen when adding loosers. Be careful with the winning trades/loser trades ratio.


Please what is require of me at these level:

Maintain Average Win > Average Loss
Emotitag 10 Trades


Kayodemiza1, I am speechless with your stats. Out of this world. Amazing performance!!!!! You will get very far here.


"Show bid line & Show ask line"

I leave the one click window open to show the spread. Keeps the chart clean.


"due to alveo going off line "

You can contact support to refer it to the workgroup who is able to make an adjustment.
I have their number on speed dial.


Is Alveo down? I went out for a bit yesterday with several winning bids and came home to a blank screen, I followed troubleshooting and still cannot get into my account. Have no idea what happened, any insights?


kayodemiza1 ,

Where did you find the 30 day rolling risk assessment calculation screen? I've been looking for it.


billfig22, go to the statistics menu and then all the way to the bottom of the page. you have the 30 days and 90 day


Thanks, ernestopenad - I've never scrolled down that far.


Lesson learned....My first goal was to consistantly accumilate as many pips as possible find a system that worked. Things seemed to go well and I could rack up a coupe dundred pips before breakfast each morning. Then I thought it would be ok to increase my lot size and suddenly NOTHING worked for me and broke a very good streak. Now I feel scalping is the safest way to go and with a lessor lot size.


billfig22, Sorry got your question late. hope you got it.


I did. Thank you for the follow up


This has been an informative site...I am in Gold one and have stalemated my self with FEAR as I too
a hit after starting off well. It seems that as soon as I up my lot size things go south!!.


I have struggled a bit at each Silver stage. I guess it gets rid of all my bad habits.


don't worry Brady its only temporarily they will come back... LOL


Took me awhile to get out of gld1 now in gld2 was doing ok then got locked out trades started out ok in my favor turned my back and quickly turned against me so got locked out, So now maybe try smaller t/f strategy and see what happens.


One suggestion that I received from a seasoned trader was to increase my stop loss and cut trade size. This advice has worked pretty well in the direction of momentum on larger time frames. Although I still have a lot to learn because I was locked out of my account for an overall 5% loss one day. I need to take it one day at a time and not become over confident.


yes, patience is difficult to master.


So true patience is very hard to master, I know I have struggled with it


It appears, patience must be key. This is by far one of the hardest lessons that I have had to learn, along with taking losses.


The market has a way to punish greed!!!! Dont stick out your neck.


Be4x.... that is the most profound statement I have heard in a long time!


Good post billfig22, I often find myself making bad trades when I can't find a trade that meets my criteria. Trying to learn to be more patient.



Keeping lot sizes small is key. When I went from G 1 to G2, I thought I knew what I was doing and upped my lots from .01 to .1. After a 5% loss day I went back to .01 lot size and have stayed there since. Until we all can become consistently profitable traders, keeping lot sizes small protects our accounts. As our account sizes grow along with our confidence, lot sizes can be increased to reflect that confidence. Watching the Trading Room recordings shows me that even though Shawn and Nate are trading 6 and 5 figure accounts respectively, their lot sizes are small relative to their account size. However, they use these small lot sizes to build positions which adds up.

As far as patience in trading goes, I believe this is one of the hardest habits to develop as a trader. You want to be patient enough to let the market breathe, but how many breaths do you allow the market to take? I'm always trying to CMA when trading which gives me the latitude to let the market take in gulps of air and it doesn't bother me.

Remember, until traders get to the funded level, they are in the learning business. After getting funded, that's when you are in the money-making business (but don't think your learning stops there).



John, if you're consistent at .01 there is no reason why you would not be consistent at .02.


True Ed, the key and the point I was making is you want to build that consistency at a lower size before upping the size. If you're taking one step forward and one step back, while that represents consistency, it's not necessarily consistent profits. I want to be taking three or more steps forward before a step back to even start considering that I'm being consistently profitable and therefore able to comfortably up my trading size. I agree that if you can be consistent at .01, you can be consistent at .02 or even .1. Good point.


This is one of the best topic's I have read, Thanks.


@ror, no argument there, I learned the two-step many years back.... :))
Thx John.


I believe consistent is the most important together with proper risk management and Risk/Reward


Its a bit of philosophy, maybe it will help to someone...
during the training boxer is fighting against his own shadow.. its fine, just him and his shadow.
Now ..
trader is fighting against his own shadow (the market) and the shadow hits him hard and hard and harder. That is bad , really bad and more painful then a physical pain, it leaves deep scars where sometimes and time won't heal. And it freaks the trader. After that follows panic and other bad bunch of negativities. Trading as magnet keeps him glued to the screen, he wants to recover loses. Gains are smaller than losses and its a circle until one day STEEL wall gets broken by the determination, courage, patience, will power to be a winner.
How to achieve that? It's a big complex thing. Everyone talks about it but nobody has a clue. Almost everyone offers his systems, risk management and other crap. It may work for a couple traders not for everyone, just because it's HIS own system, tailored, masterminded by ONLY him.
And you are here in Apiary, who gives you a really good piece of information just you have to puzzle out how to put things in the right places and you will be a WINNER
Don't forget that market is a playground and YOU are the one who is making your own rules how to win.
To keep things simple
Using Fibonacci Emas for price to retrace. When smallest Emas start crossing, and all Emas getting into the one bunch, sell, buy. Use biggest emas for direction on any time frame. When price above Emas most of the time 2-3-4 weeks Fibonacci retracements look at 50-62-76(Support)-82. When you have levels on chart, easy to see price movement. It like a pinball bouncing up and down. If it went two levels up expect one level down and so on. Like today eur bounced down from 3 weeks 82 level. Price couldn't make it higher to 100 or more. For retracements from levels use 1, 5 min TF. Have few chart windows open, one chart is not helping. Do trade one currency get familiar with it. Learn to walk, then run. I do only Eur/Usd. to avoid trading panic you have to be confident that you know what you are doing and what to expect. Market is working under the rules, and it's not chaotic as sometimes looks. Nothing in there happens without reason.
And after all you master the market can stand proud and tell all, i have 90-95 - or 100% winners.
We are traders and dealing with an old goat ( market) that is twisted as an evil and you are going to hold it by the horns.
The trader I mentioned in the begining, it was me 11 y ago until 2013 when I stopped trading without having funded.
Don't forget you are trader fighter who is fighting against yourself in the market. it took some time to comprehend it and improve my personality. You have to change if to win
Good luck in trading and if any questions - do not hesitate to ask

4 hr chart with Fibo Emas and levels

Also I found out (some years ago) that set up in charts is so obvious and logically inviting to enter, then EXPECT for move another way round.


Good topic billfig22
thank you for starting it

1 min chart is attached, to see Fibo
nacci Emas and price action



Great poetry. I wish you luck.


The most important lesson for me == know when NOT to take a trade.
Advice from a seasoned trader -- there is nothing wrong being out of the market


I have enjoyed this topic. I will look for the bid ask in the lower corner. I do keep the one click window open, but am shocked sometimes to see the spread jump to 14, 15 even 20 sometimes. It will take you out of a successful trade as a loser quicker than you can try to stop it.


I think we have all been there! Sometimes, I find Beeline to be frustrating and cause psychological trading. Often I find myself placing trades just to manipulate the Beeline. All in all, the Apiary training is priceless and we have all learned lessons the hard way$$$$


I agree the Beeline tempts you to manipulate it. My hardest challenge has been average wins vs. average losses. I can win 100 pips on 50 trades while losing one trade for 30 pips, but that won't cut it for the achievement. So I put in phony losses of .01 pip or something. I did learn it's possible to cut losses really thin; I'm still trying to work that into my strategy, which has too much leeway for a discouraging loss.


Am really going through so many losses in this stage. Any tip, In the attempt to move away from my initial scalping I begun to witness so many loss. Any advice


Kay, I deal with this every day in an account about the same size as yours. There are a few issues here clouding the equity growth problem.
1. patience, waiting for the setup
2. risk-taking, not gambling but is a basic of how one perceives and reacts to life's situations.
3. reading the candles and the patterns.

As I am guilty of all three I have developed a training exercise to resolve these. Described at the end of my thread "Random Walk Not" called laid back scalping. This morning I have refined it even further with just two indicators.
1. The HMA set to 7 periods. As with most HMA strategies a trigger is when the HMA color changes.
2. The CCI, while I use both the 100 & 200 plus & minus lines with a centerline for this trading it doesn't matter as the CCI is simply being used as a momentum indicator the verify the HMA signal.

There is only one rule and this is the Key to allowing winners to run and losses closed early.
I can only have one trade open at a time. (as I trade two pairs at a time it is only one trade at a time per pair.)

I use a .05Q and 1%R but you can use any quantity your comfortable with.
I am currently trading off the 5M chart with a 5 pip TP and a 5 pip SL but I never let it get to the SL and I will move the TP chart line as needed to allow for a runner. Again when the HMA changes colors close the runner. With just a little practice you will begin to recognize the CCI changing momentum and use it as a person for both entry and exit.

Try this and see if you don't get runs of 5 to 10 consecutive winners in a row and you risk today now called daily return grow.

Remember the Key here is only one trade at a time until the lessons a learned.

One other little item, do not move the stop loss. And do not use a risk-reward less than 1:1.

Pips for Profit

I too have been guilty of "tricking the system" to try to gain the next level. Sometimes it has worked out....and sometimes not. What I have come to realize though, is that tricking the system so to speak is not really the best thing to do. After all the whole purpose of the Beeline is to learn to be a good trader and learn to be consistent with our strategies that pull pips out of the market on a regular basis. Of course that is most likely a goal for ALL of us in order to be funded and continue profitable in the long term. Therefore I have come to the conclusion that trading our strategies that consistently give us an edge, maintaining a favorable avg. win vs avg. loss, and a favorable win vs loss. If our system over time meets these requirements, than all that we need to learn how to do is FOLLOW our rules to a T and learn how to regulate our emotions that try to do otherwise. For me at times this is a challenge...but I am getting better. As we develop trust in our trading system, we will automatically meet these requirements that fulfill what we need to do to go to the next level. I no longer am in a hurry to try to finish beeline. My goal now is just to develop more consistency in good trading.

Happy trading!! Stay green.