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A New Way To Look At Charts

 
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oel.locke

A New Way To Look At Charts

Here are some very different charts, a visual change for your eye and brain, a different way to look at your charts and indicators. Turn off the price bars and leave only the indicators visible. You can’t really turn off the price bars, but if you make everything black, all that’s left are the lines of the indicator. See attached. On these I have an HMA13, and EMA89.

The emotions of seeing price bar movement are removed and all you see is whatever the indicator is ‘reading’. This showed me how much work I need to do on controlling the emotions. It’s as if I have become a Pavlov’s Dog to price bar movement, (usually after an order is placed) but not in a good way. To turn everything black, right click and go to settings, and turn background, grid, bullish, and bearish colors to black.

I placed a few small orders from these charts and the order is not always on top of where the price is. ie. The lag of the indicator if price is moving around. You have to really trust what the indicators are displaying.

It’s pretty interesting and fun to play with, but be cautious with it.

 

Happy Trading to All

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Fri, 07/26/2019 - 2:13pm
 
joshm2005

Interesting, it would definitely be hard for me to adapt due to candle price action tells a story in its own for me. Pretty cool though!

 
robunited

Certainly interesting.

The only problem for me would be not seeing any previous price levels (support/resistance) 'to the left' of the charts' and how deep, or strong, they formed.

But good if this works for you!

 
oel.locke

Right now it's just an experiment and it is difficult not to see price levels to the left. For me the visual change was so interesting. I was thinking if an EA was based on the HMA, it would not act on the price changes themselves, but on the math driving the HMA color changes. It's a demonstration of non-emotional action.

Thanks for your comments.

 
Rookie

oel good post and an interesting concept.

I think the period setting used is most important to this as it will reflect the speed of the indicator change. So using one fast and one slow indicator may be helpful.

Also a while back Todd taught and has a cross over strategy using g the crossover of two SMA's. While it certainly works it does require some real patience to wait for the setup and then the all-important time to get out. From my POV that waisted both the top and the bottom of the price action. Not to mention my complete lack of patience.

Because any indicator is slower than the real action and all moving averages are just that averages thy will always reflect after the fact thus the period setting is important, To shart and to many changes, to long and charges are very late to show. While I like the HMA and have played with Todd's HMA 89 strategy on higher time frames and 5 to 25 pip targes successfully I still don't like missing the tops and bottoms.

Recently I got rid of all indicators with the exception on one momentum oscillator and moved to a minimum time frame of 4H. This works very well except when I break my rules mostly due to my impatience.

What I would suggest is to test on 4H charts with the HMA and forget about the tops and bottoms, just catch the middle 75 or 80% which would make most traders happy. And if on a day or month chart assuming you keep track of the Apiary drawdown rules imagen a run of a 1,000 pips or more! I say this because I know of a few traders that trade higher time frames and the Apiary rules became the problem to their success. When they moved to another platform with their longer-term stratagies they were successful.

I like that I think I will test my self with a monthly chart in my largest sim account. Of course, over time a trader may be lucky enough to catch a top and bottom and recognize it from a fake-out. But with fewer trades and more pips does it matter.

Good food for thought. Thx.

 
robunited

@oel "if an EA was based on the HMA, it would not act on the price changes themselves, but on the math driving the HMA color changes. It's a demonstration of non-emotional action."

Not really sure I understand, but if an EA can ever only act on math ... it's a robot. Of course they have no emotions.

But what about you when trading, in realtime?

What about the moment the indicator get's from green to red ... and you enter a short trade ... and then suddenly changes color direction and repaints on a life chart, back to green, as indicators always do. They never paint the real picture in real time, only on hindsight.

What do you do, as a human/non EA, stay emotionless and let it run? Or close out and not sure?

IMO, trading only based on a line color on itself is not enough, you need to have more evidence, i.e. a support/resistance level, structure around you, to make that decision to take the trade or not.

 
Rookie

"What do you do, as a human/non EA, stay emotionless and let it run? Or close out and not sure?"

addressed that above you get in lat and out latte missing the tops and bottoms like a cross over thus the need to trade this method on higher time frames to make the worth while.

 
robunited

.

 
Rookie

get in and out after the pivot points have occurred, ie this trader will always lose the very tops and bottoms of the trade.
For many, that's, taking the middle 80% of a swing.

and as I am becoming more comfortable with reading PA and taking trades and less stress with longer time frames I am going to test this method on a minimum of the D1 chart.

Attached are two examples. Sorry, no color change in TVC basic.
1st is a 30-period HMA, note how the tops and bottom of the price cycles are chopped off because of the indicator delayed reaction.

change in the period example
2nd is a 20-period HMA, note less of the tops and bottoms are chopped off while still avoiding the choppiness of a 5-period HMA.

These two examples I think would be considered trend following while Todd's 89 HMA is a momentum strategy.

Another idea if you're using a platform with signals such as TVC or a related site you can simply set an alarm every time the MHA is crossed and be notified of the change.

EU HMA 30 Example.PNG EU HMA 20 Example.PNG
 
robunited

.

 
Rookie

Rob, this is why I avoid you, it is not off-topic I am showing the results of this method, it doesn't matter if the candles are the chart or not. Dah.

May I suggest u take a hike and go fishing.

 
robunited

.

 
Rookie

I have told u off the list to leave me alone, I have not replied to your last 10+ emails or messages.

I see you can't attack me off the list because I see your emails and hit delete. So not you're trying once again as you have previously.

Last time you did this what a year ago or more I had to call in help to get you to stop sending me nasty emails and all.

You have a problem Rob you should seek help.

I don't get any hate mail except from you but I do get a lot of nice mail with thank you's and many messages of praise.

I don't think I'm going to change for you and your problem.

Please just leave me alone, if you want to have a good positive discussion in a thread fine other than that please do not bother with me.

 
robunited

.

 
Rookie

Say what you want Rob, make all your excuses etc, just leave me out of your life,
you need support and help.

I wish you the best.

 
robunited

.

 
Charles Moeller

Oel and Ed, Thank you for the discussion. Very interesting!

I am currently using a 4 HMA to 8 HMA crossing on 30M for entry signals on Alveo.

That translates to 4 HMA to 8 SMA on TOS 30M (cleaner display, IMO). Cautiously working.

 
Rookie

thx Charles how is it working out? what time frame are u using now?

FYI BTW Kevin did this in class one evening with no candles, it was quite an interesting display of the indicator trading.

 
Charles Moeller

Ed, Here are my "Great Four" 4X8 crossings (or touchbacks) for this morning, with GMT times and possible pips for each run. E/G 1215 40p, E/U 1345 6p, G/U 1225 48p, U/C 1220 10p. Shown for each are 30M, 15M, and 5M charts. In G/U today, I got 25p and 0.88%!

G4 7-29-19 1200 to 1600 GMT.png
 
Rookie

Charles that is awesome! Catching the swing cycle is the way to go, my opinion of course.
In this very tight market where scalping seems to be the trade of the day your charts reflect the trading drill down to the core position.

I was discussing you set up this morning (were your ears ringing) and not that I want to mess with success but maybe moving your time frame out a bit would add some pips and reduce the number of trades. Cross over strategy is very dependable, just requires patience, a lot of patience.

great piping, enjoy.

 
oel.locke

Charles,
I assume the pink line is the 8 SMA in your examples. Does the color change of the 4 HMA signal anything for you, or is it the cross that is the signal?
Is a "touchback" a bounce off the line?

Thanks,

Owen

 
Charles Moeller

Yes, the "touchback" is when the PA briefly crosses and recrosses (or comes close to) the 8 SMA. Good entry can be made as the price crosses back to the main trend side. The main signal is the actual MAs crossing, in all time frames. I use the HMA because of its shape and the fact that it is (was designed to be) closer to real time than the other MAs. In the case of Alveo, I wanted both color changes present to support a different kind of trading technique, for occasional use. Since I wasn't actually trading in TOS, I was able to use 8 SMA to get enough separation for a better visual presentation.

I prefer to enter at the beginning of the 30M bar, when it goes in the right direction, but I can get a "heads up" from the 15M and 5M charts.

 
Charles Moeller

Ed,

Thanks for your suggestion.
I used to trade the 1M and 5M and had to put up with frequent frustration. Now I am up to 30M and that aspect is much better. I may move to higher TFS, as you say. Being successful is a new chapter and I am having fun with it as I learn.

 
rondelmenendez

Thanks Oel, I will look into this little bit more.

 
oel.locke

Rondel,
I just think it is so interesting to look at. The eye perceives the whole thing differently.
Good Trading To You.

 
Norma Jenner

oel, it's good to see this, because Ken Wood used to teach trading off CCI with no prices showing, so that is what I learned, and its is how I learned to trust CCI. all its nuances mean something to me. After I could Look at only CCI and draw a price chart that looked decent, then I really understood CCI.

As you said, trading off the indicator alters how/what we see and think, to our benefit. Its biggest advantage is that we learn to trust the indicator(s). e.g. most people only read CCI for peaks/valleys. If I speak to them of a 2 bar offset between fast and slow CCI, at th zeroline vs at the 100's, or of a specific bump in CCI, or whether it is convex or concave, or where a TLB says price will reverse, or whether the apex of a triangle drawn on CCI is above/below zero, or where and when the next three turns will likely be in a sideways mkt, people don't even pay attention because they simply do not know CCI well enough to trust it. But trading with only CCI on my charts, I had to trust it. CCI taught me all the things above, not Woodie. Just CCI. Years of 18hr days with an 8 tick chart. Those are conditions under which our brains teach us things no one ever realized before. After that stage comes the stage of learning to trust seemingly outlandish projections......serious trading edges. SO....

More power to you. It doesn't matter what we trade as much as it matters that we know it intimately.
As an example, Charles has been developing his current strategy incrementally for a long time, as he has become intimately familiar with how his indicators work with different timeframes with several pairs at specific times of day. The details are not accidental, but reflect a lot of study, a lot of stats, as he became more and more familiar with his indicators and strategy. He is a stats master --it is paying off.

 
FrankS

Speaking of a new way to look at charts, since Alveo does not provide Range Bars (at least yet), I have to use TOS. Point is taking time out of the equation (or at least lessening its influence) provides a whole different look at price dynamics. Fact is range bars create a much clearer breakout system, in my opinion. The one variable choice is the length of the range for each bar. I tend to think in terms of an S/L value or a multiple of it.

Yes, I still use MAs and crossovers on some time charts for trend changes as well as overlaid BBands, but I'm finding I do not need them at all for range charts, whereby I merely depend on a High/Low Price Channel and a major Fib retracement to define higher probability S/R levels. I used it today for USD/JPY with results that are raising my stats significantly (and I need it).

Chart - Range Bar - USD-JPY.JPG
 
oel.locke

Norma,
You are way ahead of me with the nuances of CCI. You are a PHD of CC, and I'm still trying to spell it.
I just think it's so interesting the eye-to-brain connection and our perception of things.
Let's keep at it and get to G3.

Thanks for the post.

Owen

 
oel.locke

Frank,
Nice chart. Doesn't it seem that some days price action is in sync with what we are trying to do? Some days I'm in the flow, and some days it speaks a different language, one I don't understand.

 
Charles Moeller

Right, Owen!

Looking at the bigger picture (and higher time frames) helps a lot. (Look first before you enter!)

At times, I've seen a juicy trade and jumped on it, then looked at it on a wider view and saw that the alignment was opposite to what I would have chosen, had I looked first. Then I had to work very hard and cautiously to exit at or near BE, or a small profit, for which I was very thankful. Now, I have three or four TFs displayed (as a rule) before I take a trade.

 
Rookie

CM I agree I have stopped trading both sides fa a trade or the legs, only now will go with the major trend or no trade, Even when placing a so-called hedge for a major trend pull back, I will only enter fix it mode in the major trend direction.

And it sure makes trading decisions much easier and faster to review the charts for setups.

 
CirrusSageRL

:)

 
Charles Moeller

Tks Ed, and I agree with your further commentary.

 
TheDreamingTrader

Have you tried your setup with the Price Setup in the template settings set to ... Line

That way you still have a very clean chart with just one more line tracing the bar closes and also
means you don't have to muck around with blacking out the candle bars and it is also very easy to change
back to the candle setting if you want to for any reason

 
oel.locke

That would be simpler, then just change the line to black.
Thanks

 
shine.brian

That’s interesting. I’ll try

 
CirrusSageRL

oel.locke

I tried that before. If you use cycle based lagging indicators only (like macd), I think it won't work. If you use cycle based leading, such as rsi, etc it could work. If you use trend based lagging (moving averages) it could work, but you still need to use retracement, risk:reward strategies, etc.

Resolving the problem in detaching your emotions from the price chart is not in the chart. It's in your every day life. The only way you can know that you can trade the chart without emotion, is if you already do it everywhere with everything in your life already.

It is very hard to feel no emotion on the chart but then to feel for things outside the chart.

 
oel.locke

LKSL, Great and perceptive comments. I feel everything outside the chart as you say, and in my every day life. ( I have grandchildren who help me with feeling emotion.) I have a lot of work to do to get emotion out of my perceptions and reactions to the charts.

If I had a trading robot I could name it 'Non-Emo' and it would trade better than me.

Thanks for the great post.