System Messages

This forum is for members of the Apiary Investment Fund. To learn more about how to get involved, sign up now or fill out the form below and preview the training right now!

Shawns "Volatility Play" - Anything documented?

Back to Forums

Shawns "Volatility Play" - Anything documented?

Hi Everyobdy,

Has anyone seen some documentation on Shawns Volaitiliy play, the strategy he's using a lot in the Trade Room and Trader on the street?

I know it's not easy to document and shawn explains a lot during his trades, but if there's something written about it, would be nice to study



Sat, 02/17/2018 - 1:42am

@Rob, not much written about Shawn's strategy in the way of being analytical. Mostly just the trading room vids and his own or others like Jeff or Rex from time to time comment in other classes. I did see Shawn explain it once or twice but I couldn't tell you which video it was it. It seems many of the very experienced / instructors understand what he is doing but can not duplicate it.Shawn has been trading for such a long time with tens of thousands of trades behind him he apparently does a lot of his trading intuitively.

Unfortunately Apiary web site doesn't provide a way to search in the video collection. The only way I have found is to do searches of the forums from in the Apiary search function , review the posts and if a vid or URL is referenced just follow it. This will also work from a simple Google search of Apiary asking the subject matter in question.

The person that does have the video knowledge and ability to search them is Vilas. Another issue is that many of the videos are not what they are titled because the presenter got side tracked or simply changed the subject matter due to current needs or events and apparently when a video the presenter doesn't tell the librarian about what the title should be.


Yes, a seems like he is totally in sync with the market and intuitive.

For us to get there, we have to first establish the specific set of rules he stays within.

I would love and try to document his Volatility Play, at least peal off as much off the intuitive moves and
pin down the basics.

If you are interested, we can try and write it together, it would be a great exercise.

I'll post later a couple of thoughts on how to start getting this structured


I'm game! I'd bet that Jeff Crystal has it already as much as can be and Hac or others could provide some great insight.
He is the first one. He starts out with a reference center line and S&R lines for reference! then watches which way PA goes and places a trade and builds from there or as he calls it wobbles in or out placing more trade. When I try this in my sandbox I usually good the first several trades but sooner or later I will get trades that the PA doesn't come back and take out. Lay It out we got the videos fro documentation. We have nothing to lose but pips! and every to gain. I'm all in.


Great, yes, the wobbling ;-) I'll put this in.

For now, as a starting framework, I have this, please let me know when reading this, does it make sense to you and do you kind of see Shawns thought process?

Shawns Volatility Play

Works best in volatile markets with powerful retracements, i.e. Euro open / US open

(Shawn explained this and gave a very clear chart example, I’ll look this up later)


- Analyze PA on larger TF, understand PA on 5min, open trades on 1min chart
- Define support/resistance levels, area of value
- Wobble: Contain the price around area of value by “Building up a Position" with multiple trades, distributed in small position size
- One Click Trade is configured to take 2 Pip profit and 24 Pip S/L
- After the trade appears on the graph, re-adjust the TP / SL levels
(When to leave a trade for 2 Pip profit, and when to have 1 or 2 trades with a wider TP, is important to analyze and get more information)
- In Shawn words, keep the (Hardstop) S/L on the RIGHT SIDE OF THE FENCE, outside the area of value

---> Important to understand, we don’t wait for patterns to complete on the 5min chart, we are part of the “creators” of this pattern in the market by working the 1min chart

Exit strategy:

- Keep all trades within the area of value, close to the price
- If trades fall out of area of value, peal them off quickly <— This is one of the most important aspect of this strategy
- Close all losing trades with a Softstop! The pre-configured Hardstop is only for emergency, risk we can’t control, i.e. Internet access down, platform issues etc.
- Take many 2 pip trades to make up for the losers, meanwhile keep “wobbling" building up multiple positions close in reach of price/market volatility
- Continuously have 1, 2 or more trades with a larger TP, which makes the income for the day

Rules with screenshots/chart Examples:

When to enter long positions
When to enter short positions
When to move to break even
When to increase TP levels
When to let 2 pip TP run
When to Softstop losing trades


WOW good start Rob, I need to print this out and study over it. I'm tired just now but I'll be up in 3-4 hours. To work on it!
If you want we can keep this public or take it off list no matter to me either way.


Couple of fundamentals which I believe are important to understand for this strategy

Defined areas of value, i.e. when Shawn talks about the Trampolin Move

This is really difficult at first to get your head around as usually many of us would naturally do the opposite, buy vs. sell
Have to trust the volatility to pick up at this defined area and let the trades play out

Example: Trader on the Street E02, at 23.40min

Don’t wait for signal on the 5 min to complete, we are part of the creators of the signal on the 1min

Example: Trader on the Street, E02, at 31.15min


Roo7, attached a doc you can review. sorry for the bad formatting for now

As Shawn is trading this in public, on YouTube, with very detailed explanation (really so genuine and generous), we just keep this in the beehive for everyone to hopefully, provide a lot of feedback

ShawnsVolatilityPlay v1 Rob.docx 445.78 KB

Hey Rob, I like your post about Shawn's trading. His method has put me into Gold III a couple of days ago. Looks like you are well into Gold II. I was there for a month and only because of some good gains Friday I jumped into III. Now, I hope I don't let any 'real money pressure' affect my trading. I do better when relaxed and disciplined.


Hi Ted, excellent news, happy for you and good luck with your funded account!

I was wondering whether this play would bring me through to GIII, because of Average Win/Loss requirement. Good to learn you got this done!


@rob, thx for the doc exactly what I was going to do with the notes. Appears I slept a bit longer than usual...
My strength is in looking at visuals let me do this later today after finishing up the &W worksheet. I will take a section of Shawns trading and break it down trade by trade into words like a movie script and post the results. I think by doing this with your gift for words we can make the most of our efforts.


Rob, as Hac says, I tend to agree more and more with every trade that I take risk management is the overall end to end game management tool. in this video the first 50 mintes Shawn discuess the logic, then goes thru the best example of the application to a trade I have viewed and why he trades 3-5 pips. I can now make a small trader worksheet to be applied for each trade and multiple threads active at a time. In my mind this brings it all together. As Shawn says after trading the same time frame over and over this process becomes second nature with a range. Very good vid and he best I have seen to date about the BF and its real application.
To all you Bee's I apologize in advance for posting this vid in a few forums so that the information is easier to find..


Rob, from this I think we have a good start at developing a wobbling risk management. I think I have had enough videos for one day. I'm going for a walk...

Subject: risk 2012 summit with Shawn
Shawn 40 min into the vid describes in basic detail his methodology thought process.
1. Small trade
2. Break even so you now have a no lose trade.
3. Base hits little 3-5 pip profits but if start of trend he is building in and sipping at the same time.
Ergo build into a position and then add on for the run.
4. Vs one contract and letting it run, psychology its easier because you’re in profit and taking pips rather than waiting on the market, you making the market carry and come to you in sips. No stress, less risk and bigger profits.


Rob a few quick notes/observations mainly. A while back Rex did a class or two on allowing a trade to come to you. I think he did it on a day trader logic and it might have been in that class that he touched briefly at the end of the class on Shawn scalping.

While we say and Shawn will say he is scalping also because of the 3-5 pip and quickness of the trade. But if you watch him place the trades the PA is always coming to his TP beit long or short. I and maybe most of traders are accustomed to going after the pips. We find a trend, compute the TP and SL, check for risk avoidance and place the trade.This is the exact opposite of what Shawn does.

He puts in his reference lines watches the PA, preferably an Inside candle if formed the next candle moves either bullish or bearish. Once that candle is underway a trade placed just above where he thinks the candle is heading if it goes the other way he places the hedging trade. At not time does he chace the trade but will add positions as needed in the direction of the trend and maintain hedging trades on a not more than 1:1 bases. Does that make sense? You also hopefully keep the hedging trades far enough from PA to not get triggered until the trade comes back to you. And you always close out trades when they start stacking to protect.

That said he is always watchful of the PA building support and resistance points. Thus with his experience of a zillion trades he is able to mentally forecast or anticipate where the trade is going to go and once confirmed place the next trade according to the now visible PA. Make sense?

Now when I try this its usually in a much slower market (not very helpful) and I always get a trade triggered that gets reversed on and PA takes its sweet time coming back if at all. However in stronger markets I can make about 25 pips per hour doing this. So I need to place another 1,000 trades doing this.

In summary I don't think Shawn is scalping in the traditional sense. He is trading the PA by placing stratig trades in advance of the action and allowing the market to always come to him. Once in profit there is little more stress of trading and thus the calm relaxed composure.

Once proficient at this why would one want to trade any other way? As any other way is greater risk and more stress with a less assured outcome. Make any sense to you?


Hi Roo7, ok, have to read through your posts today. Had a bad fish for dinner and been down for 2 days.

Yes, I agree with this, Shawn does not trade in traditional sense and placing strategic trades.

As far as I see because he does not wait for any patterns to complete to get in, he gets in before the pattern completes.

So he's most of the time ahead of the curve/crowd.

And he knows how to fix his positions when it goes the wrong way.

I have a look through the video links you posted today.

We just have to look through many of the videos and document the important clues and comments from Shawn.
At the end we should get a good picture and better feeling for it, I'm sure.

Good stuff! ;-)


One thing which we have not in the plan as of yet is the "offsetting" or "hedging" of trades against each other when he builds up his position


Another thing is that Shawn is trading EUR/USD, almost always.

It provides the volume, volatility, low spreads and maybe not so unimportant, most news about the EUR/USD you get automatically as this is everywhere in the media. Don't have to search for Swiss France news or whats happening in New Zealand.

So for the past 2 weeks, for the first time since years, I haven't seen a single different currency pair other than the EUR/USD.
(I got 2 screens, 1 with Alveo EUR/USD 1M chart and the other with the EUR/USD 4H and 5M chart. No other pairs anywhere)

I can tell, I don't miss my daily endless browsing through countless currency pairs. But trading daily charts, as I previously did, this is more or less a must on such a high TF.

Now I got my focus on only 1 strategy and 1 currency pair ... it really simplifies everything for me until I get this mastered.


@rob, "One thing which we have not in the plan as of yet is the "offsetting" or "hedging" of trades against each other when he builds up his position" I think I touched on that above and surly with not enough detail because that is how my scalping gets in trouble, when that hedge reverse again and back again then I get a stranded trade or two.Let's keep in mind here we are using buy and sell stops to not get triggered in upon entry but let the PA come to us. Byu watching the newly forming consolidation areas even if its just two or three pips Shawn because of his huge trading experience (Jeff and perhaps Nate and others that we haven't watched wobbling) he can intuitively and logically educated guess where the market PA is going. If he is wrong or maybe just a bit ahead in his timing he will place another trade until he is correct. The only danger here is the PA (trend) may be slower than anticipated to return to the mean (the reference line he set when starting to trade that cycle). Mostly he waits to place the hedging trade until just as the PA has committed and his timing is the greatest almost always avoiding a hanging trade left open. Makes sense? I will try and test it in a few hours and again with the NY open. I'll also try and catch a few more vids but this time specifically watching Shawn trade.


Roo7 The video about Benjamin Formula was really good! As you said, once Shawn said he takes only 3-5 pips, but many trades, you have to divide this by number of trades ... it did bring it all together

I've updated the doc with this video as separate Risk/Money Management section ... which is on top of the strategy, as it should be ;-)

I'll watch the wobbling vid you have posted above next thing tonight.

(missing a direct reply button to a post a little bit)

ShawnsVolatilityPlay v1_1 Rob.docx 430.24 KB

Thx rob, I just am finishing up the trade room of 2/8/18 again. There are several really good points in this vid.

1. I made a mistake above saying about using sell/buy stops.
2. he dose take regular market positions however and this is a big one.Remember he is looking to capture movement on the pull back. 3. So when a trend is going bearish he is taking longs and when it is going bullish he is taking shorts. Looking for the change / reverse in direction. But not always.
4. Shawn called this style of catching the price movement, short term momentum change, volatility type trading, intraday scalping. Shows where the mind is at.
5 There are many good example of using the 5M chart for predicting direction and momentum building which will flow down to the 1M chart.
6. shows a really good example of pilling trades when PA goes on a continued trend and building the way back out.
7. Watching the new formations of S&R zones.
8. Watching the candles tails to get insight to momentum and future direction.
9. at 1:06 short chat about using position size on the lower alveo bar.
10. Woobeling technique doesn't have to be to precise until you get you positions over extended, then get into precision type trading requiring precise entry and exit.
11. He easily closes position to avoid over exposure.
12. In setting up trades for building a position, wait for consolidation to form on both the 1M and 5M for confluence.
* Take away for the day, the wobbling technique is great but you have to have movement.

Note, there is ambiguity above in when a long or short is taken, so I'm going to get a cup of coffee and watch it again.
Chat with you a bit later.


Rob I realize sometime my etching can leave a bit to be desired. Please when adding to the list if its not explained enough etc. just add it and I'll go back to add more definition as time and experience in practicing permits. Thx.

BTW I thank this is a great project and am very delight that you invited me aboard this learning process. I think we are making good progress in a short period of time and will succeed the goal of emulating the wobble trading strategy..



Subject: risk 2012 summit with Shawn
Shawn 40 min into the vid describes in basic detail his methodology thought process.
1. Small trade
2. Break even so you now have a no lose trade.
3. Base hits little 3-5 pip profits but if start of trend he is building in and sipping at the same time.
Ergo build into a position and then add on for the run.
4. Vs one contract and letting it run, psychology its easier because you’re in profit and taking pips rather than waiting on the market, you making the market carry and come to you in sips. No stress, less risk and bigger profits.

Another excellent must watch video, it does give a lot of insight. What you talk about above starts at 50th min. of the video.

It answers our question when to take 2 pip TP or when to let one trade open for larger TP. He positions the first trade, get's it to Breakeven, then opens several small profit trades to distract him fiddling around with the longer pip target trade. At the end satisfied with all.

This is trading psychology pure and not a 'technical thing' to document I get a feeling this is a very important aspect of this multiple trade/position build-up strategy

One thought do, this was Summit 2012 and he explained this method when the trend continues, how's that in the Volatility Play?
But I think it doesn't matter, it's the mind-set behind it.


my comments on the 2/8 trade room and I am watching it again is all about volititivity play. I find your comments on target!
One thing is for sure if the market doesn't have the movement stay out, when no movement I stay even in trending markets as they usually have a pill back or slippage tied to it until volume returns.

While its not relevant on this subject Jeff does a video after Shawns. Where he uses a Bollinger Band box and a shift (not available in Alveo) with is on target with me as I trade using bands...



great insight from all of you. thanks!


Just a quick one to add, 1 trade is 1/5th size in position of risk profile (2%)


Roo7, yes, you are correct, 2/8/18 is all about the Volatility Play and your list with points are all spot on.
Let's see how I get them into the doc. Especially your mentioning about the consolidation phase, which we have nothing in it as of yet.
But it's such a huge part of building up positions.

Btw ...I think it's so good this video is the introduction graph (and link) in the beginning of the doc.
If anyone wants to learn this strategy, this recording is a great kickstart


yes Sir I agree your choice of that video was a very appropriate into,
BTW does Thailand still have a noodle kitchen on every corner downtown. I have to tell you they are some my favorite eats in the world.


Rob "Just a quick one to add, 1 trade is 1/5th size in position of risk profile (2%)"
could you put that into the %r language?


Roo7, found an excellent & clear answer on the forum to the %R question. Kudos to Jean-Francois

Screen Shot 2018-02-20 at 4.07.26 PM.png

After collecting, reading & watching so much info and digesting it, I thought I give it a good try yesterday and today on my current GII account.

This Volatility Play is like watching a juggler throwing too many balls in the air at once and you have no clue how he controls it and catches them all back.

One good start would be starting with 2 balls, then 3 then 4 etc. It gets real difficult to handle more than that all at once.

It was a real good session I think. One thing I got correct, trading within my frontier or constant risk. No loss larger than 10-12 pip, no random position sizes, etc.

The problem is that I got way too many of those 5-10 pip losses, and too many of my 2 pip short targets are not hit, most go to 1.80 pip, don't hit my target and go into minus.

Another very positive thing is that I start to get more comfortable navigating though many open positions, spotting the lines of the open trades and get more relaxed moving and managing them, all in short TF.

This really needs a lot of practice.

Attached screenshot shows it all:

- Too many losses
- Too many large losses
- Not enough winners
- Winners to small

But they are all within a set risk framework, I'm sure in a month time the chart will slowly turn upside down.
The stats overall look good, everything is very close together. I just need that one click or aha moment to break
out of my bad trading habits. Letting a trade open longer, don't cut winners to early and especially find better entries for my
2 pip TP to trigger more often.

I also seem to have an issue to identify when a market is volatile. It's easy to spot in a chart on hindsight.

I mostly get caught in a sudden steep down/uptrend without retracements and can't get into fix mode to rescue the
losing positions. Also I don't wobble in sufficiently to hedge/offset to make up for the losses.

A lot of work and practice to do! Feels a bit like driving a car for the first time with all the instructions, but no automatism.

Screen Shot 2018-02-20 at 4.01.42 PM.png

Ths Rob, yes I did see that, I read 100% of JF posts on any subject. I use have been using it on every trade for about a week. How ever in G2 and my trading style I have mainly stayed with .01 especially while have some difficulty with the trends. See my posts in tryguy's new thread Return to the Average Trade. Currently I think are going thru another USD phase of strengthening which in turn greatly effects any pair with USD in it. For example with the S & W worksheet which many of us use as a tool to select which pairs to trade this week had many USD base and quote pairs on it. Oddly at euro/london open Sunday they all, every one reversed their position 100%. This also happened with eh last FOMC report. In my case in both instances I was left with a few pairs hanging. In the first instance it cost me 4,000 pips in the second so far on for Sunday about 300 pips and today appears I'm attempting to make up 200 pips or so from trade carryovers. So I have learned not to move my stop loss for a come back and to trade what you see, if the strategy holds for any market it will stand the test. Mine has stood the test as my trades are now green again. As I mainly trade the H2 chart for trend and the M5 for confluence and entry and is working fine. What I needed to do was when my stop loss is reached don't touch it and contain the failular. I reached this decision from the agony of defeat because of my pride in not letting go of a loser and coming to the conclusion that it was nothing more than pride and greed holding the position open by moving the SL.
Anyway I base my rationalization of the reversal of trends on the USD strengthening. The problem that has developed for me is these trades on the 2 hour are relatively small from 15-50 pips allowing for trade room to grow I am finding that even a 1:1 ration may not be good enough protection from myself.


Sorry forgot which thread I was on. That last post has nothing to do with the topic....


Hi Rob, part of the consolidation process in recognizing the S & R zones is the market sentiment which is reflected in the PA time segment by time segment. Todd did a good presentation of this in the Forex Fanatics class this morning 2/20/18, video to be posted tomorrow.... It doesn't matter is candles or bars are used are some other method as lonf as the price movement is reflected accurately and quickly after it occurs in real time.

In this case using candles as they seem to be the most popular. Being able to read the PA via the candles important is somewhat important. As with all patterns a story is unfolding and maybe none more so that when a consolidation is forming even if it only two or three candles on the one minute chart.

This recognizing the PA pattern formationing as a consolidation or run as a predictor of the immediate future PA would become important to placing the next trade one the PA has committed itself.

I believe Shawn having traded successfully a gazillion times now he does this intuitively. That said without having a camera on his eye movement we will not be able to ultra definitively define his wobbling technique. Which is not to say we can't learn it by observation, education and lots of practice.

What ya think bro?


I think yes, you are absolutely right! It's a lot about correct positioning in the consolidation phases.

I'll watch the FXFanatics video tomorrow morning ... will be nice with a cup of coffee ;-)

We might not be able to ultra define the wobbling technique, but before putting any cameras, we always could go
and see Shawn on a 1:1 session for 1 or 2 days ... ;-)

Tigger Bee

Watching Shaun is definitely high on my entertainment value. The bits you pull out over time become invaluable. The work you've put into this tread to date is awesome. And the comment about catching his eye movement would be the pinicle. Maybe we can all chip in and get him an Oculus Rift virtual headset (lol)

I think part of the wobble is in using your peripheral vison to keep an eye on the 5 minute chart. And here's how it seems to play out when watching over his shoulder:

I believe Shaun has a direction bias. Let's say "long" for this example.
The level of volatility presents itself on the 5-minute time frame as a certain percentage overlap of the previous 5-minute candle.
Let's assume for this example it's 40% retrace, then a continuation in the long direction.
As Shaun watches the one minute for the thrust and lunges of price action, he's always cognizant of time remaining in the 5-minute game. How many 1-minutes remaining before full paint. The pattern of each of the single 5-single candles action relative to the 5-minute.
The wobble can begin anytime on the play below the 5-minute directional bias midpoint, expecting price to stall and recovery at 40% (for use in this example only). Scooping up the pips.

When it goes awry, a new game begins. I don't think you can mix the skill used for the "routine" gathering of pip with a completely different skill set of correcting a bad assumption.

The main key is definitely coming from Shaun's own comment about just doing it and doing it and doing it until you get it to a level of profitability. Hopefully, it's not actually a gazillion times (grins)


@Tigger, that is excellent. Very astute I would have missed that fine tuning you pointed out. Thanks for taking an interest and time to post!


@Tiger, great contribution

"As Shaun watches the one minute for the thrust and lunges of price action, he's always cognizant of time remaining in the 5-minute game. How many 1-minutes remaining before full paint. The pattern of each of the single 5-single candles action relative to the 5-minute.
The wobble can begin anytime on the play below the 5-minute directional bias midpoint, expecting price to stall and recovery at 40% (for use in this example only). Scooping up the pips."


Hay Rob, I wa short this morning after the NY Open again but only about -34p. So about 8:30 and market starting to do its reverse thing and slow down I thought I would try some scalping. I did make one huge mistake and left the wrong chart on my second window. Also when the EURUSD settled into a trend I missed the signal and have several open trades left. In total I'm plus 91 pips with 215 unrealized risk is -1.21. NP this will work out or I'll trade out of it.... famous last words. No this isn't a sim account. Bottom line for 1.5 hr I made 91 pips pls the 34 pips I was already negative for a total of 125 pips or about 82 pips per hour. So now its back to cleaning the aftermath of my errors. but not a bad start.

Hope you get a chance to redo the worksheet, I'll start filling in the blanks and updating documentation then. After that we should be able to adequately address addition gaps. What are your thoughts.

unrealized 2-21 10am.png

This is an excellent article. I will follow up on this in my Silver 3 Demo 1 account.


Great please keep us posted on your progress with data and any suggestions, especially if we missing something. Thanks.


@Roo7 A lot of pips you made and recovered ;-) What account is this, your Gold II?

I've just finished watching Trading Room 4th of Jan 2018, and it has 2 excellent plays demonstrated by Shawn.

The first play, starting at 10min - 31min, is very close to the process Tiger outlined above
The second play, starting at 37min, shows good examples about how to reduce and mitigate exposure

I've done a lot of trades the past 2 days and many similar to the first play from the Trading Room.
This works ok for me as there are not many mixed (Buy/Sell) position in one play.

So far I'm doing well, if all trades go one way up or down, with trend or counter, doesn't matter too much. But
I start to struggle when I suddenly have an opposite trade in the position I've build up. Don't know how
to handle this. If I have 3 open buys all ok, I start to get the timing better as well and let them run, but as soon
as I have an opposite Sell order in there, I lose control ;-)

I'll try tomorrow morning to get all the new bits and pieces together and updated in the doc.

Otherwise, little trading break tomorrow, it's Gym, Sauna, Wellness all day and then at 10pm live Trading Room with Shawn ;-)

See you there!


very good Rob, as you can see from my post I got stuck when the pair picked up a real trend. I didn't catch the broadcast signal and got over extended the wrong direction.
On the short reversal you might add a CCI and when the CCI says its moving one way or the other it usually will or a candle later. Just until you get the hang of reading the naked chart.


Morning Rob, rewatched and, again and I'm sure I will watch them again down the road just a bit.
Hope your wellness day went well.
I'm going to grab a 2 hr nap before London opens, I am itching to do some trading and scalping.
I did clear up all those pesky negative pips by closing what was left for a small loss. These negative trades were entirely my fault I had placed hedges against them when the market turned guess what I forgot to close the opposite trades. A real dumb s_it rookie move...
The good news I did improve my expectancy and win/loss is good.

David H


I have just arrived at Gold 1, and one of my objectives is to improve my scalping results

And as we know Shawn is a master at this, so the information Rob and Rookie have pulled together is mind blowing, and hopefully I get some time to work my way through I will have some good learning to incorporate in my trading approach

Well done to both of you, and many thanks for sharing

Keep well



@David, We thanks you but we are not done yet! Isn't it cool, you in Australia, Rob in Thailand me in the US/Iowa and Shawn in Utah on video how we can all collaborate and of course the internet in electronic space. David please keep us posted on your wobbling scalping progress.
BTW your moving along very well since joining up in Nov of last year, 4 months to G1 is not to shabby!


Really good Trading Room session today!

One question to remember ... in which cycle are you when you are building the positions?

Based on a predicted end of price cycle on the H1 chart, Shawn got all the clues he needed to not get biased towards an outbreak, which saved his trading, that's what he said at the end.


yes it was I have to rewatch again as i missed the beginning, just wait till i post my scalping results after I get something to eat....


You go Roo7! ... hope the fridge is full of good things ;-)


sure is mostly left overs, old single guy thing, that's why I really like the noodle restaurant on every corner...


Here ya go Rob, several conclusions to be drawn here.
I still have 17 trades open waiting for GBPUSD to head back towards 1400 that I didn't want to close yet. (planning, pride and just plan
old greed)
1. I'm a dumb sh_t. Why I lost so many hundreds of pipes stupid errors.
a. when trading with multiple make sure before you hit enter in one-click you see what pair is up.
b. again when looking at say two windows, high and low time frames make sure you have the same pair in each
c. when entering he side in one-click look at it, make sure your entering the desired side.
d. when placing trades that are close together the SL may become hidden behind the orders lines. Thus if if want to move the SL
out of the way you may not see it.
e. When price action slows down you may need a wider SL and or move the SL for the open trades. I went from 10 to 15 to 25 to
50 today then finally went to 100 with everything out of SL fear.
f. When placing a stack of trades say 5 or more on the same side it is wise to place them in the direction of the trend is going.
Especially in slower markets.
2. Didn't know but found out that Alveo has a limit for the number of open trades one can place. It is a % of eh account balance I
think.In a 10K account it is about 50 positions and in a 1K account it is about 20 positions. So its not just open trades but open
positions for thoses that trade more than 0.01Q
3. When watching Shawn he identified two types of scalping. a, the wobble and b, trend following.
a. In wobbling be careful not to get overextended as you may not get back to your stranded trades to close them out profitably
b. In scalping with the trend be careful again not to get over extended. If the trend pulls back to a reversal your left up the creek
without the proverbial paddle.
4. If you bury the candle with trade lines open an oscillator, I used CCI and trade off its movement.
5. Beside know where your pivot points are and a centerline for reference, keeping a close watch on the pips movement in the
active orders box provides a good early indication of which way PA is about to move. PA may change at the last moment but
you will be forewarned. I found this to most valuable and if combined with CCI is quite a powerful indicator.

Bottom line. I think once a treader masters Shawn's scalping techniques there is little reason to use and formal indicator based strategy system. Why risk hundreds of pips per day or hour when one can make more of less 1000 pips per day using Shawn's techniques.

Now every one buy GBPUSD so it moves up to 1400, I need 1.3694 to be a very happy Bee1
BTW I got my expectancy back to positive a=on the 20 and 50 now just working on the 100 and 1000 positive expectencys...

Rob that is my negative and positive pips for the day. Happy piping. I will rewatch Shawns trading room tomorrow. Time for a good nap.

history 2-22-8 2pm.xlsx 54.12 KB

Rog item I forgot to mention. I had a stack of trades with a handsome profit. I was greedy and didn't harvest them and plant a new crop. The Pair pulled back and I'm still looking for the profit.

So as the saying goes, Don't be afraid to take your profits.
BTW taking of profits protect you and the fund by not leaving exposed pips to be whisked away by the market and making someone else's day! It's a zero sum game and we want that in our pockets not someone else's. This can only be done by taking of profits.


Very nice


Shout out to Rob and rookie for shinning a light on Shawn's Trader on the Street videos . I had not watched any and now I will watch them all ! You guys are providing a very valuable service in building this documentation of Shawn's actions and thought process . I would like to add a few things from my notes while watching the 2:23 video done in Dana Point Ca - I used to live there and loved seeing how great the view is there .

First , I have started to trade in Shawn's style with his screen setup as best I am able . So far I am 80% wins and a positive expectancy . What I have derived from this Great Approach of Shawn's is a way for me to better analyze my Order History by counting the number of Take Profits activated rather than "Market" and how many Losses were taken prior to the Stop Loss setting . These two measures indicate how I am managing the trades - am I letting profits run to avoid taking to early and am I preventing losses from reaching the S/L level to maintain a low loss average .

Other notes :
Indicator Dependency - avoid it because indicators are not always correct (that hit home , and I can testify that trading XAG/USD using Stochastics can be very frustrating and losses can occur while nothing on the screen is moving - Slippage Exponential ! )

Two bars typically form in breaks beyond S/R.

Shawn said "When Markets go against us , you have to be able to fix those trades and that's why 90% of traders are not successful because they don't know how to fix wrong positions. "

" I look to make 1% in 1 to 2 hours of trading each day " says Shawn .
Anyway, this discovery (probably most everyone else in Apiary was already watching the videos , but this enlightened me ) will be the improvement I need to reach my ambitious goals in Apiary . Thank You !


Thanks Don the words are greatly appreciated. We are not just doing this for ourselves to trade better and to be able to trade like the master Shawn really is. Shawn said today maybe he should write a book about this technique I agree he should but call it the Yoda of Traders. Shawn has written a few books, one on trading which I read right from the get go maybe I should have read his children's books as well. On the other side of the coin I also read the book written by Jared Martinez of MTI. Its part of the research that I do. Shawn's book was mostly about trading stocks and other instruments not forex at all. However his fundamental techniques were clearly long ago founder squarely on protecting wealth and safe trading. I digressed Rob and I are not just doing this for ourselves however that is clearly one of our chief motivations but we decided to keep it public for the Bee's to chime in as you did and maybe we all can collectively learn something fundamental about trading consistently profitable. I certainly have and so far yet to be perfected especially getting rid of these really dumb rookie mistakes to become a consistently profitable trader. I am honored to have business plan is on the homepage and he first day it was their I almost fell over. Frankly I am very happy with a 1/2 to 1% consistently daily every day profitability. As hac has pointed out on several posts about monster returns and many famous people have said believe you can and your almost there. When I wrote my core plan my goal was simple but lofty to me. It still is, I was asked twice recently by two well respected bee hive folks what my goal is, where am I going with this? I would now add or maybe simplify it by saying to become consistently profitable get funded generate rewards for my efforts and take some of that reward and open my own trading account and continue to trade both for as long as I can. Shortly that first goal will become a reality. I can say enough about Shawn and the fund he has put together.

The next round Rob is going to update the doc we are building and then we document it, answer any ambiguous areas and have it reviewed by all and maybe some traders will be able to adopt the wobble to their own style to benefit themselves and the fund that got it all started.

Take care snd thank you for posting.

David H

Hi rookie

Thanks for your encouragement, and I will contribute once I have raised my knowledge level and get more aligned with what you are doing

I refer to your above approach to analysing your trades in a spreadsheet (I love spreadsheets) and wonder how you extract the data from the Apiary database - I had a go at doing this about a month ago but was not successful. So much easier to analyse a spreadsheet once the data is in place than to 'subjectively' analyse by eye often on the website





1. I'm a dumb sh_t. Why I lost so many hundreds of pipes stupid errors.
a. when trading with multiple make sure before you hit enter in one-click you see what pair is up.
b. again when looking at say two windows, high and low time frames make sure you have the same pair in each

Roo, well, that would be a very easy fix ... only have EUR/USD on the screens ;-)

Or, alternatively, have a separate Workspace, one for the Volatility Play only. And if you need to trade another strategy / pair, do this in a different workspace.

This wobbling technique is so fast and requires a lot of focus and fast action. You really don't want your workspace and open orders cluttered and mixed up with different strategies. That reduces a lot of risk for error


@David to get the data out is easy peasy, if you right click on an open history file (toolbar icon at top, I leave mine open all the time at the bottom of the Apiay screen, just minimize it) anyway just right click on an open history file and a little box shows up asking you to choose which type of file you want to export to. For me that is excel which I place on my desktop. Close or minimize the history file and get on the trading!. I think Rex is going to do a two part class on using the stats page and maybe the history export to improve trading next month. It should prove to be very interesting. Any issues pop a note or message.



Ok, I've tried to put in the comments and ideas posted from everyone as much as I could see it fit the plan and hyperlinked to the videos. Got some issues with the formatting, but that's not so important right now

Please review this and let me know how it reads, what is missing or incorrect.

I'm completely missing to describe the Hedging positions, because I don't know how to do it! ;-)

Maybe someone can look for video sections focusing specifically on when to open hedged positions.

ShawnsVolatilityPlay_v1_3_rob.docx 460.69 KB

Thanks Rob this is great I will try and do it tonight.. maybe tomorrow!
Hope your trading is going well!


Yes, back to trading and applying what we've learned.

Take your time with the review, we will be here for a longer ;-)


ok yes we will, I plan on retiring right here in apiary forex electronix land.... as Kirk said I only work in electronic space but I live in Iowa!


Roo, let me quickly sneak in this updated version. I've added Shawn's lesson from yesterday, determining the stage of the cycle we are at before starting to build positions.

I think we have covered a good bit of ground so far ...

ShawnsVolatilityPlay_v1_4_rob.docx 462.42 KB

great thanks!


Update to my yesterdays scalping session you may recall I was very negative in pips and percent risk about -4.75%. After logging out about 2pm yesterday and sitting on my hands until this morning about 5 am I waiting the prognosis was that GBPUSD was going to make another run at 1400 and by 5:30am it did just barely but for me it was all the push I needed. Plus 75 pips and I was out of the stack one happy camper. I wanted to stay in another pip or two but caution heck fear said get out you positive for the first time in almost 24 hours.Bottom line I dodged a big bullet for G2 success and made 75 pips!


@rookie and robunited: Hey, guys thanks for all your work to make explicit Shawn's volatility strategy. I too am in Gold II challenged with the same beeline tasks, and the Ave Win>Loss is all I have left to master. I find that I do great and then one bigger loss blows the last 100 trades. Repeat and rinse every 100 trades. This week has been a tough trading week as the long trends are transitioning, especially on the USD and correlated pairs.

I think that when this happens moving down to the M15 and fading in with small positions with smaller TP or scalping preserves core capital and gives us more control with risk management. Scalping and Shawn's "sipping" the market goal seems more effective to me than trying to hit big homeruns with a few trades. As a prolific trader I'd rather do many more trades for smaller profits than risk 1 big trade that I have to let run against me a few times and hope it goes my way. Take Profit from the market before the market takes profit from me is one of my rules. But if I do too much of that I have a few bigger losses but many many 2-7 pip wins and that doesn't help me hit the average goal.

When I trade with Shawn on the Thursday trading room I typically do about 50 trades and I win more than lose, although I sometimes lose because I can't keep up with him, not because I was wrong. Timing is everything. I was thinking about doing that on one Thurs and then not trading in my live G2 account again until the next Thursday and then I'd be close to the 100 trades with an average win/loss that should be greater over 100 trades. What do you think? Would that tip us into G3? (as long as we meet the 30 day positive expectancy).

Your attachment is helpful documentation. Thanks. The one thing Shawn does that is quite amazing is how he sets a long on a bear candle rundown, and a short on the bull candle pullback. It's a unique hedging strategy by itself and probably only safe to do on the M1. That takes nerves of steel and a lot of of course I want to master that! If we could define how he's doing that intuitively inside his Volatility Strategy, I think our order history and equity bar could look more like his over time.

Questions to add to your list:
- what are his rules for knowing when to hedge in a volatile whipping market and when NOT to?
- what's his signal to know its safe to implement? I notice that he sometimes does it and sometimes not, so what signals him to do it? Is it his confidence and experience in reading price action? Or does he see something else we don't see yet? Is it speed of the market? How do we know its safe to do?
- where is the area of value do you start hedging? I've noticed that if you do it too close to the Support or Resistance when it retraces you don't TP on as many pips. So it has to be placed where you would optimize the TP on the pullback. He seems to know how to do that, so how do we copy that?
- How many positions on the hedge? [I'm thinking 3-5 trades with 2 pip TP if the M1 ATR is about 10-12 pips. Also you have to be able to watch and be ready to hit the X on the soft stops if the market does something else. Personally my soft stop is 5, sometimes 3 on the M1.]
- Does this work in a less volatile market?

I'm going to test it in my SB on the GU and GJ - both of those tend to have more swing even in a slow market. Even with the EU is consolidated.

Thanks again for documenting Shawn's strategy! Hopefully we'll all be funded quite soon.


Hi Meagan, really nice input and great questions you have asked!

Let's work through this over the next couple of weeks ...


Hi out there I am in Silver3 trying to get to Gold. I been trying Shawn's trading way but I only trade with the trend, then I wait
for the trades to come back to the money which they seem to always do if the trading with the big trend. If I do trade counter trend I close that trade quick in the money or out of the money like 2 or 3 pips ether way. If anyone out finds the secret let us know we are in this together. Good trading!


@Meagan, I agree with Rob and thanks but lt me take a minute to try and help the loss issue at least from my POV and very brief scalping experience. I trade a lot I think I had he 100 trades down in two-three days.. While the G2 is limited with 1,000 bucks and 5% risk having a positive win-loss and using the %R is very helpful for profits and managing risk.

I am currently in the process of defining entry, mid game and exit this week end. And will repost the doc for review.

That said my losses are mostly due to human error... mine!

Upon review of my losses not directly reflected a basic rookie trading error: I look at the pivot points / support and resistance areas on both time frames and ask, what did I miss? I will usually find the answer in a missed PA signal, observation of the wicks is also helpful as a coming indication of market sentiment to become self evident within a candle or two.

Also look to ensure you are in a ranging market and not a trending market because trending requires a slightly different strategy as Shawn demonstrated toward the end of yesterads trading room.

So my losses are larger in pips because of waiting fromthe PA to return to the mean. Did I miss a signal? did the PA break out of the channel ie.S&R boundaries? If the market turns to a trending PA then your more likely to see a stranded position or two and growing negatively... as you know fairly rapidly.

When placing the hedge keep the number of positions small and not more than one to one until the market reverses to give you your profit.

Hope that provides some insight for now!

Thanks for you participation in the thread we need trader input.


Thanks, fellow Bees for all of this analysis and insight. My neck is sore from shaking my head in response to always being on the wrong side regardless the direction any pair goes... I'm sure I'll need therapy before this is over, or maybe I just need to find a coach. I'm only Silver 2, so I still have time to make corrections before I get into the (in my opinion, more important) Gold levels.

If anyone can comment on what a Risk Management interview entails, I'd sure like to know. In other words, if I had to explain what I'm doing now and why I'm down so much, I'd have to say I'm trying everything I can think of to push the opposite button! If I could find an evil twin to trade against everything I've done, I'd be up by a few thousand pips by now!

Enough with the whining, thanks again for sharing this. I'm going to walk back through the conversation and review your Word doc.



@ Brian, the word doc is a good start and we are constantly updating it, I am doing a lot of work on it this week end and maybe submit it on monday or tuesday.

@ Brian I never had face to face so to speak risk management interview. When in G1 as per instructions I requested it (you fill out this little form) and I attached my trades xls and my 90 day xls. The in a day the next level just shows up along with a nice email letting you know about the advancement.

@ Meagan, I thought of a scalping exercise, I did in my G1 account yepper not even in a sandbox account. I'll call it the flipping coin exercise. Set you SL and TP for your scalping mode, I think I used 5 pips and then reduced to 3 pips and a short like not more than a 5pip SL and increased it a few times. But only change one variable at a time so you can quantify the results. Pick a pair and stay with that pair through the exercise. Start placing trades both buys and sells, once placed don't touch them. Make at least 25 tests for each adjustment, make the adjustments based on what you see occurring in both PA and timing. At the conclusion got down your thoughts then export your orders history. Open the spreadsheet and only save the trades of the test. Not get eh grad totals of pips and $$. Then do each section. I also computed teh win/loss ratio for each section and the $$ per trade + or - for each section. Thanks port you answers to a simple review box, you may be surprised at what you find out.Then identify what was good or bad about each block of tests. This exercise will also improve your trigger finger so to speak. Good luck.


Nice thread.

I’ve spent countless hours watching reruns of Shawn in the trading room and more countless hours trying to trade like he does. My results have been mostly disappointing but there are a couple of things I’ve done that have helped. I’ve watched how Shawn sets an “emergency” stop 10 or 20 pips away and then exits trades manually based on price action but I struggle to make that work. I get better results by setting a stop at about 2x the ATR. I get stopped out of some trades that would have become profitable but I also avoid the 3x, 4x, and 5x losses that are difficult to recover from if you get several in a row. I take fairly quick profits but try to mostly take small losses and small gains while getting positioned for the “break out” bars that seem to provide the bulk of the net gains from scalping.


@Michael, Thanks Michael. I haven't tried the ATR thing yet for scalping but I shall run a test just to see what results. With scalping tests do not take long...As a funded trader you have more experience and consistency than me. You might watch yesterdays trading room. 1. make sure you know if your in a consolidating and trending market. Then trying and eye ball your price cycle for you chosen market in your trading time chart. As Shaun goes on its pretty much all laid out in the first 25 minutes.


Thanks to Rob and Rookie for starting this thread. I just got funded this week after blowing up my Gold 2 account when I hit that level last summer.

I have not placed a trade in my G3 real money account yet as I want to do some final testing on my systems. I have tried long term trading and scalping and always check multiple TF charts to ensure I am trading with the trend.

Good luck to all the


My two cents after watching the live trading session linked in your document...

Nate has mentioned the daily ATR a few times and I'm sure I don't understand it... Certainly I don't know how to apply it to a strategy. My apologies to the forum for being a little thick on this and other concepts. Truly focused demonstrations with illustrations are what it would take to get the lesson across to me.

Shawn mentions "knowing where you are in the cycle" near the beginning of the session, so I keyed in on that with images and notes. I'll post my thoughts on this in my blog and post again here for your feedback. Thanks for having me. Illustrations attached to this show his demonstration of two price cycles up to (what I thought would be a target) price area of 1.23447 and another image showing his trades with 1.23447 as one of the scalps he had open as a sell later in the session. Coincidence, I'm sure. Confusing to me, absolutely!

Here are my notes from the session:

1 ATR (14) daily 118 PIPs - Nate?

When you are scalping, be sure you understand where you are in the cycle.
See illustrations. Shawn shows - Two cycles up to 1.23447 price area.
But because we are at the end of an up cycle, he does not take the bull trade.

Note: Shawn's TP is 2 and SL is 24 - is this something you can do? (talking to myself, here.)

"Not the time to be building a big position..." Strictly scalping.
All the wicks are on the topside.

Cycle Illustration 3.PNG cycle illustration 123447 was at the top.PNG

Hello Brian, thanks for the great questions. I will attempt to intelligently answer them.

1. ATR,, The average true range is a moving average, generally 14 days, of the true ranges. Said another way from Wikipedia "The indicator does not provide an indication of price trend, simply the degree of price volatility." for example your on a 1 hour chart and the ATR reads 20 pips generally speaking you can expect a 20 pip move over the time period. For example many folks use the ATR to devine where to place a SP and SL at say 1.5 or 2 times the ATR. So onc the direction and entry point are decides a trader wants a ration of 2:1 for the TP So the TP would be placed at 40 and the SL at 20. Obviously the trader needs to check and make sure the choices are reasonably possible.

2. Cycle, first you want to know if your in a trending pair or a consolidating pair and the overall direction. This is important as they are both certainly tradable but each has its own charcastics requiring a different scalping approach.
a. 1st image on the left 1H chart. Price cycle, Shawn is identifying the support and resistance S&R levels and the distance between each level to get a feel for the movement in terms of pips and if you marked off the star and stop of leach level you would also have a time slice. Now the way I do it is simply take your cross hairs and pull down for each level and best guess the average PA movement. If your movement takes place in less time your building momentum if less time then things are slowing down.
b 2nd image on the right with the 1M and 5m Charts. Note on the 5M chart the consolidation rage is being pointed out. This is good for wobbling. But then on the one minute chart the bullish candles are being pont out. Note the much larger candles and getting smaller as the PA is taking place indicating a loss of momentum.
c. Wicks. There are wicks on top of these green candles meaning that pressure is being applied to head south. So why would you place a buy order when (when added to the information of b.) the PA is going to head south? you wouldn't unless your more a rookie than I am... LOL. You would place a sell order allowing anticipation of the PA retracing and coming to you. How cool is that! Pips marching into you wallet!

Hope that helps and is clearer than mud...

Keep up the good work and forum participation!

David H

Hi rookie

Thanks for letting me know to get data from history to spreadsheet - always easy when you know how




Just finished watching Trading Room, 11/1/2018 ... my god, so much information and so many clues in this recording, don't know where to start! (

- What is intuitive in Shawns trading what is according to strict rules?

When he answered the question why he mainly is trading EUR/USD, Developing a 6th sense, it's beyond PA, intuitive, gives you an edge ... all keywords from Shawn which should give us a clue, this is part of his intuitive trading. (Starting at 30th minute of the recording)

- How to scale out & close positions on time (seems to be the biggest problems we all face with this multiple position technique)

Starting at the 50th minute, Shawn senses directions start to change and wants to wobble in to be prepared for this. But first he has to fix this one sell order, but not "just by just closing it", he waits patiently until it retraces a bit further back to Break Even (or small loss).
I've seen this a few times now. That might be a good clue how to reduce your losing trades/larger pips on losses.

- Corrective Actions; Damage Control; Mitigation

Continuing into the 53rd minute of the recording, you just get a perfect demonstration with explanations how to start mitigating, when to enter a hedged trade to offset risk/losing trades.

- Taking many small profits and give the last trade more flexibility to be a runner, 55th minute of the recording

Ok, back to documenting a little bit more .... (EDIT: attached)

ShawnsVolatilityPlay_v1_5_rob.docx 464.51 KB

I think since the question: What is wobble? comes up a lot ... we should start looking for the best video segment where it goes smooth and with good explanation from Shawn.

So if anyone has a suggestion and a link to a very good "Wobble session" ;-) ... please post it


Morning Rob, yep I have watched that trading room video 3 times now. It is one of the best examples of "How To" now a word doc question.I started to update the doc you sent before todays update. Do you know how to merge the two together into one?


I mean, it's weekend, good time to document, reviewing and updating. Just take your time and update the one you have and then we send each other a copy and compare. Let's see how we merge it later ... ;-)

Since we can't attach files in PM here, I'll send you my email.


ok I figured out how to merge docs but haven't done so in a very long time.


don't worry, I'm an old school doc merger ... copy/paste ;-)


@Roo Next week is going to be essential for me. I'm tailoring my initial scalping strategy slowly towards the volatility play we learned this week. But now, time wise, it's the last week off the required 4 weeks of the Beeline task in GII and my stats are very close together. I will not risk wobble tests & exercises next week on this account. My previous scalping is more one-directional/single trade, as opposed to multi-trades/multi-direction ... so I will be very careful and chose top trading conditions only next week ... and get it all into green and move on.

If I understood correctly, there is a minimum of 90 days to stay in GIII before you can forward a request to the Risk Team.
So that will be 3 month of full power wobbling for me!

To this point, I hold the system together, no errors increasing lot sizes, no hole to dig out, no hope or fear, no focus on $, only 0.01sized positions, only looking at the pips and playing the patterns all over within the frontier of possibilities.

Numbers are not in positive, but a lot of trades and practice done ... I really like this style of trading.

Screen Shot 2018-02-24 at 9.29.03 PM.png

Rob, I got it and thanks for posting the stats. what I see in your rolling stats is a need to increase your win-loss ratio a bit and or decrease the pip size of your losses. As you do have a 53% win loss ratio you might think about using %R contracts to increase the win vs loss pip/$$ percentage and stay within the confines of G2.

Once funded it is my understanding that it is every 90 days at the discretion of the managers. If you feel you have valid reasons to get more funds ask for a review, if warranted you get it if not nothing lost...

I post a lot of stats an spreadsheets as it tends to eliminate the fish that got away stories. In forex more than other endeavors the meat is in the numbers.


Yes, numbers don't lie! ;-)

The stats are pretty close because every time I wobble, they go down and then I recover with my previous scalping strategy, which is much more conservative.

I'm currently only working on this one system, so I don't need any R% calculations. It's all min position size, 0.01, equal across the board, and it's about getting the pips and trades up into the right direction. Once the system is in positive, then I can start to calculate position sizes, maximizing my 2% risk etc.

But this is not on my radar right now, I first have to learn to drive and control that thing ;-)
(Actually a good point for the doc, if you are testing this, just do it with minimum position size on your account until you get the technique).

It will be a slow but steady transition ... and you know, at the end, we all don't want to copy a strategy, trading like Shawn is not possible. Because we are not Shawn. But taking all the good things out of it, as much as possible, as far you want and desire until it fits me ... that's my aim.

Re 90 days GIII and discretion of the managers, very true, and will be the real first test I guess.

To stay in GIII for 3 month I meant in a more technical way,. I have seen in one thread on here that the Green Box, next to the 30-days stats, is greyed out until day 90, then only can you click on submit. So that's of cause my next goal ;-)


ugh the G2 time requirement is x trades per week for 4 weeks, is all is completed by then submit. Not 90 days.
I understand 100% where you are coming from ion the %R, I differ with you in opinion however when scalping or laddering so to speak I do use just 0.01Q as well. Another advantage when placing multiple trades one at a time with 0.01Q is that it keeps the rick percentage down. As you know with 1K it can be stressful. Thats side if one is just swing trading one or two trades I think prudent use of %R is good.


Roo, also good point to discuss. I've edited it above too late, but I think, if you are learning this system ... you don't need more than 0.01 for every trade, equal across the board, for 10000 trades and more ... until you feel, yes, I got it. There are no $ numbers involved or required in this process of learning. Only positive pips.

Shawn also never changes position size. The only thing he's changing at times are TP pips, sometimes 2, when iit's slow, low volatile markets, and increased to 3 pip when is faster markets. There are no money calculation changes involved in the whole process, only the set 1/5th per trade, equally.

Once you got it and want to start to make money, now you can start calculating your Risk Profile according to your available account size to maximize your income with as much risk as you are comfortable with.

The Benjamin Formula is there so that people don't trade their 1k$ account with 10$ ticks per pip, as we all did at one point before ;-)

What you think? Good discussion point? ;-)


Roo: "ugh the G2 time requirement is x trades per week for 4 weeks, is all is completed by then submit. Not 90 days."

I talk about G3, we got 3 month there to practice the wobble until the button to submit for the next funding level appears after 90 days, think & plan a bit ahead ;-)


ah yes I was misunderstand you on the G thing.

As for the .01 thing I think it should be mentioned and left up to trader discretion but should absolutely be included in the discuessionbecase that what Shawn does, and he is out founder and leader.
What greater way to honor someone other than trying to emulate what they do!!!


Hi Rob and rookie007,
Just following your discussion on this Saturday morning and noticed something that should be expanded in your comments :

"Shawn also never changes position size. The only thing he's changing at times are TP pips, sometimes 2, when iit's slow, low volatile markets, and increased to 3 pip when is faster markets. "

When I watched the 2 hour video I was struck with how many times Shawn does move the TP and SL once trades are placed . Yes, he always uses a fixed setting in the Variable Codes , but then he adjusts on the fly and moves the settings up . down and back up sometimes depending on the price action . This compares to letting your parameters manage the trade for you , with TP and SL taking actions the settings prescribe - Shawn is very proactive during the trade . I found that a learning point , and yes I have moved settings but not to the extent that Shawn does - not until now and in the future that is .....
At the end of the video , Shawn says" that was a rough session, but we were able to manage the trades by making adjustments and made $587" (or thereabouts) ....I think I just reached overkill on my point , apologies



Yes, so true, we are all in struck and in awe how easy in-control Shawn is moving all those TP lines around ;-)

Shawn moves the TP lines around to maximize profit for the current market condition, it's amazing to see and learn.

But Position size, that has been calculated beforehand, and that Shawn will never change during trades. In the Trader/Street video, his position size never has changed from 0.25 per trade. Only the TP's.

It's a set thing calculated based on the Benjamin Formula beforehand.

This hole system is based on positive pips only, all equally in position size as opposed to R:R calculations, 1R, 2R 3R etc.

What value is behind each pip, that's not important while learning this strategy with 0.01 lot size
System First, Money Later ...

In my opinion only of cause ;-)


@don_johnson, very good observations , I don't recall any two hour video. can you attach a link? or just the link if what you were watching? I really want to see and learn from it.
Thanks for reviewing and commenting!


I remember a 2 hour video, very long, nice ;-) Trader on the Street first episode


ty will put it on asap


January 2018


dj, yes, that's the one. Really nice to watch.

Shawn said later in the Trading Room that he was getting a bit nervous about overloading and not getting out, but he did it, as usual!

This was the video where it really hit me and thought, wow, I never saw so much active and controlled open trade management, I want to trade like this!


ys it is watching now, many great insights here. Also trading at 0.25.
thank you


Thanks, Rob and Rookie for all you've done here. I'm doing what I can to understand and your analysis is most helpful!

Here is my (two cents worth) contribution:


@Brian, looks good to me and thanks for the link back to us.
I enjoy the total process very much and have yet to call it work.
As a great benefit I put a lot of effort into the process and I think I probably get the most out of it.
As Todd likes to say, I'm the best loser I know.


Mr. Roo, I think we are done documenting for the weekend, thanks and don't forget to go to the beach! ;-)

Attached the revised version covering a lot of ground we have discussed this week.

ShawnsVolatilityPlay_v1_61.docx 322.9 KB

#Don, thanks very much for the link to the first Trader on the Street episode,

Rob I think this is an awesome video and an excellent example of real life trading. I think maybe Shawn used the .025Q because the guy new something about trading and it was the first video. I have not seem that since. Perhaps this was not the best example given the potential risk of have the trade open so long which goes opposite what Shawn normally teaches for risk avoidance.

I would break the video down into two parts.

Part one being an excellent example of how to set up a trade. In this part it is very clear using the charts to find the consolidation, the range borders for the S & R areas and getting started. We also get great insight when not to start building a position and when to build a position. And in this section of the recording (about 25 or 30 minutes in the beginning) the volatility played along nicely.

Part two was like watching paint dry. I'm sure we have all been there done that. This is why I get out of the NY session 2-3 hours after opening, same for London which leaves me maybe an hour to fix or close out of positions that I could not get out of positively the first time around. Shawn did a supper job of maintaining his cool, displaying that patience to building in or out of positions as the market was will to give to him. He also display that tenacity of not giving up to get his profit. If the trade had gone the other way which it often does Shawn would have been left with trades hanging and the negative gap growing exponentially with so many positions open he would have had little choice but close the positions to preserve the account capital. Fortunately it worked out, took and hour and a half but thats painting with pips. Now if it did go negatively as has happened to me on more than one occasion would we say tenacity ot maybe oh well I'm the best losing I know or called it just plan stubbornness or pride not to let go and have a loser? No matter Shawn's experience and a little help for the PA won out for a profitable morning.

There are some great setup screen shots in the vid.


Going to the beach in IA in winter is ice fishing... LOL not my cup of tea but I will read a book and do some research... that's my relaxation.


Yes, great video really! Everything in there to a bit extreme extend, that's why its so great to watch, getting it back into positive pips.

I remember I was so surprised. In the first part, Shawn recovers a lot of losses and is finally back into positive territory.

At this point, I thought, good, great job ... close down and move on for the day.

But then he starts all over again, a lot of positions, back into negative ... I thought, well, why didn't you stop before and be happy?

... and then it all goes according to Shawns plan, a lot of positive pips and he hands over the cheque. What a spirit.


I uploaded you documents and will analysed them for use. Thank you guys for your effort.


Watched more Trading Rooms yesterday. It's quite amazing what you get out of them when you know what you are looking for.

What is Wobbling:

Here a very short and crisp explanation from Shawn on his Wobble Technique, Minute 50

An amusing analogy to the wobble, when Shawn compares it to The Drunken Stagger ;-), Minute 27th

Peeling of positions, reducing risk:
One thing which becomes more apparent to me is that Shawn doesn't close trades when they go bad.
If a trade is badly positioned, he waits for the price to bounce back a little towards the trade and closes
it with break even or small loss.
Minute 30

He also calls these trades "Throw away trades". They are used to find confirmation of market direction
Minute 56th

As we all experience and agree, the most difficult part of this technique is when you have build up a larger
position and price goes against you fast.

Shawn talks about this here, when getting caught in a transition phase
Minute 56

I've put the links to these videos in the appropriate sections of the trading phases in the doc

ShawnsVolatilityPlay_v1_7.docx 324.68 KB

Hay Rob, you should have the day off more often! thx.


Morning Rob, The following and attached is day number one of the 'Wobble" effect on me. This is the NY open from 8am until 10 am, 2Hrs. Three main things learned today and last night in my G2 account.
1. Make sure you chose a channel to trade in and not a trend as a scalping trend is traded differently.
2. Shawn warns about getting lopsided with positions. How does this happen? all to easy.
I make a rectangle for my S&R definitions but there are usually red pivots available.
A ten pip SL is a bit on the small side as I was getting stopped out from PA.
I started to use the spread between the S&R lines of my rectangle and it worked out well from then on.
So getting into upside down issues. Using either the S&R lines or the rectangle when the PA is approaching either side just like being overbought or oversold, pause and check things out. If PA stalls for two candles a pivot will usually show up indicating a change of sentiment/direction. Get out, take a hit, don't follow it. Catch my negative pips.... your in a new trend, it might be small but it can and most likely will.
3. When adding trades especially when fading in rapidly and the trades keep disappearing don't think that PA is moving so well that each trade is being closed closed out. If you check the pips and nothing is being add or subtracted look at your orders window and be sure you can see al the orders you need to see. My open orders window expanded behind the MS the MS task bar... So now I have several trades I would rather have not made.... just another rookie dumb sh_t error. I sure hope I run out of these soon. So the entire story isn't told in the numbers only all the closed trades.
Make sense?

Won Lost Total
Trades 102 4 106
Profit* $66 $-2 $63
Pips 309.3 -22.1 287.2
Average Position Size 0.02 lots
Average Trade Length 7m 56s
Average win* $0.65
Average loss* $-0.59
Expectancy* $0.6

Rolling 30-day Risk Assessment
Wins vs Losses 102 : 4

Calculate my 90-day Stats
Avg Win vs Avg Loss* $0.65 : $-0.59

Greatest Loss -0.01%

Expectancy* $0.603

Number of Trades 106 trades

Total History 0 days

Passed quizzes** 10 of 10

Wobble 2-26-8am-10am EST.xlsx 14.14 KB
Charles Moeller

Great work!

Thanks for all the info.


It sure is fun and a lot less stress than placing overnight or longer trades that ebb and flow a 100 daily or more...


I agree rookie... patience on the entries is key.


and exit no hold losers....


@Roo, nice set of trades!

Yes, I experience similar with 10 pip stop out, but I don't want to have any losing trade larger than that. 10-12 maximum, so I will need to work this out better over time to peel them before they even get there ...

Can you elaborate a bit more on your S/L rectangles and your s/l, maybe a screenshot?


Mr. Roo, looking at your spreadsheet, if you allow me one observation. As you know, one thing I work very hard on at the moment is consistency. I want to get a true picture/statistic of my trading.

You are trading 0.01 position size.
Then there is a series where you trade 5 times higher position size, 0.05
In a lucky way for your stats, this series of trades, they were all winners.

a) If they were losers, you would have had a tough time recover from them with 0.01 lot sizes ... that digging out of a hole thing ;-)

b) Another aspect is also that your stats don't reflect the true Expectancy for 100 trades, as the trades are not all equal in pip value

Expectancy is the $ value which you can expect from 1 trade ... in your case 60 cent. But now you don't know whether this is with 0.05 or 0.01 lot size? Or an average of 0.03 lot size?

That's where my point of view comes from if you want to achieve consistency, leave the lot size constant and only trade for positive pips until you find your way in the system


Rob, thats for the analysis and I agree. I will leave it at 0.01. As I trade in multiple accounts sometimes I forget to reset things. I think over this number of trades that suck a small number of trades with a fractional increase makes little difference. Anyway its ok with me, 0.01 it will be and I'll ray and do an image save of the chart which I think is clearer than a screenshot. Looking forward to another session at this.


Rob the screen shorts you asked for.
in this case the rectangle is 12 pips wide.
The 252 am I just sat down to wobble, lost 12 pips showing the PA breaking the boundaries.
after a few trades I adjusted to location of the rectangle to more accurately reflect the price action center.
301am does that
310am displays breakout a sanity check at conforms the change in sentiment on both the 1M and 5M from SB to N to SS during this process.

310am a brealout of the box.png

not sure why the other two didn't attach I'll try again.

301am with new adjusted box.jpg

I suppose a jpeg is to lare for more than one image.

251am breaking ont of the box -12 pips.jpg

@Roo, yes, I think I see what you mean.
Actually, at first glance, my first thought in first screenshot was, you are boxing in the areas of values :-) almost, very close ... indeed good place for what you say, giving it more margin around these areas for your s/l decisions


Rob, here is this mornings NY open I used GBPUSD this time because the EURUSD was to narrow at about 3 pips.
This box is only just short of 12 pips. That said immediately the USD quote pairs broke to the bearish side. My thoughts are in preparing for this mornings USD news. While the trend breakout has other breakout methods of trading and one could short say 20 micro lots for a fairly large gain this is how I get stuck even with just positioning placing trades bearish to catch the fall. We don't know where it is going to stop and reverse back if it does reverse back and if one doesn't close the open bearish trades within two or three pips one is left with open candles growing negatively. In this case I will wait to trade today until after the news effect wears off.

714am wobble setup.png 714am wobble setup.png

7:50 am both 1min and 5min chats with my usual indicators. after a few rades I am net about 5 pips negative.
In retrospect at the just before 7:30 am breakout posted above had I not been busy with these posting I most likely would have done a breakout strategy of rapidly fading with multiple positions. But as they say hindsight is usually 20-20.

750am after news wobble 5M.png

ops here is the 1M chart

one last comment of the fading in or out. As Hac suggest proper timing intervals is prudent as compared to what I refer to piling on or if your the Turtle Traders commodities technique this can be very profitable strategy. As the turtle trades proved the use of selecting a winning trends and adding positions can be very profitable as long one cuts their losses short. Thus sometimes huge os several hundred to a thousand pips can hide a lot of relatively small losses.

Rob, I know you would not agree with exercising this strategy due to the inherent risk and technique but when a good strong trend is discovered it is exhilarating.

750am after news 1M wobble.png

It is critical to recognize price movement as it tests.... retests... and tests areas.... the 'wobbling' entries for me are on each area that breaks down... I add to my position and occasionally take an opposing position in these areas depending on the strength... then work the trades in and out trying to maintain the most profit.

Granted, I tend to leave the trade rather than get into too many opposing positions like Shawn. I think that takes a lot of experience and screen time on the charts. I am new to forex, but it is a very comfortable way to trade... especially in a strong trend, but works in consolidation as well.

Today is my first day in Gold II and nothing changes... I do the same thing every time... my weakness is patience on the entries.

The best thing about the technique is the volume of trades for the beeline in conjunction with controlling risk. Personally, the wobbling technique is the kryptonite in my opinion to the beeline, but that should come as no surprise given the creator.

I attached my screen setup with HMA indicators on the one minute and the 5 minute strategy on the 5 minute... I only use the indicators for 'light' confirmation and trade length... my 67 trades since 5PM (MST) yesterday constitute about 60 minutes of total trade time. I stop between 1 and 2 % profit and move to the next day. I am usually profitable 4 days out of the week using this technique.

gold_II_stats.JPG gold_II_beeline.JPG gold_II_cropped.JPG

@dsoote, thanks so much for this valuable post and documentation. It certainly proves the point of consistency! congratulations to you.

Btw; how did you get such a great screen shot and the neat list of G2 events?


@rookie007 Thanks... I find it really helps to visualize trading techniques. I use the snippit app in windows 10 to take differing screenshots.

Quick and easy.


@dsoote, say that again? ;-)

"Personally, the wobbling technique is the kryptonite in my opinion to the beeline, but that should come as no surprise given the creator."


@dsoote, got it, I have win10 on my laptop, I shall have to give it a try, thanks again.

Rob and dsoote, I think the beeline allowed fro a wind rage of trading strategies and with the classes allows one to find a strategy that fits their personality. That said these that use varying forms of the wobble and scalping techniques seem to have really great stats and a lot less risk exposure to there capital.



Yes, completely agree. This is not a copy exercise.

A keynote is always something very special ... everyone takes as much as possible as they can out of it, and implement it to the level of their own comfort and success.


@dsoote, so thanks for the snipping tool, I think ror mentioned it the other day but I failed to follow up on it. I found it in Win& and watched a youtube on how to use it. definitely a very kewl beans tool.


I agree completely... you have to first define a day-to-day strategy ad then 'own' it. I think Todd, in one of the lectures, stated he knows everything about the 50 Moving Average... he owns it and that confidence is a huge factor in successfully being able to trade consistently.

I use a full combination of several strategies to make my primary day-to-day trading strategy. It is mine, the dsoote strategy, and like Todd... I own it!

I know it inside and out, i am comfortable every time I submit a trade, and I am very confident that I will be successful using it day in and day out.

A system is unique to each psychological makeup, risk tolerance...etc.

@rookie007 Welcome on the snipping tool... very easy and creates nice screenshots.


Hi! Just completed copper 3 requisites and onward to the next this morning. This move just got me excited about this amazing forex trading course. Will return soon for more sharing time....


Nice surprise today, a new Trader on the street ;-)

Amazed every time, not only about skills, but more so how much of a real genuine, relaxed and happy guy Shawn is.

Lauren in this video also looks like he has a great time and asked really good questions!


I tried watching it last night but gave up due to a bad feed someplace, I will try again.


Wobbling today, ugh
I wobbled today for just over an hour of the NY Open. You can see in the image whe trade went south wich I think will return to the trend shortly and is now in a horizontal channel. This took me by surprise with a quick downward thrust at the end of the bullish trend. Obviously I ran out of risk. For my first time ever... but I'm the best loser I know.... right.

This is a great example of fading in ti rapidly to control successfully and how a trade can get away from you when you keep moving the SL instead of staying in front of the PA. With changing strategy to something again to a microburst. I didn't maintain my best composure and didn't react properly to the situation.

I think I may be inG2 a little longer than anticipate after this pip play.

Happy Piping to all.

GBPUSD Wobbling 1 hr.png

Here is the humiliating-embarrassing spreadsheet which was dropped off when sent, I guess I hit the 2MB limit.

history 2-28-18.xlsx 18.4 KB

Roo, you are doing allright, it's testing ad practice, that's part of the process.

You are going the right direction! We'll grow into it ...

Maybe stick to one pair and one strategy? Position size you already have under control now -)


thx Rob, for the scalping session that was all one pair GBPUSD....
as I have said before fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me the third time take me out behind he woodshed.
This is the second time maybe now I will remember to change the technique when it occurs and it will occur again.
Until the London open I'm place long trades.... LOL


got it I think now to increase the volume of pips.
So I wobbled from about 12:30pm to 3pm. While my results did not reflect the volume I would have liked to see the time wasn't the best for scalping. I sorted the chart by date from oldest trade to newest to get a more accurate pic of what and when for me. I also separated out my intraday trades. Even so about 60+pips from the session and no giant stupid sh_t Mistakes...

I also changed my indicators to simplify bother screens to the Apiary pivots and CCI. I think tomorrow I will go naked... The pips will most like be on the run then... Hee Haw, I'm tired my yuck for the day.


2-28 wobling.xlsx 14.65 KB

You guys are SO awesome. Thanks for sharing. I'll be reviewing again over the weekend, this voluminous body of work.
Time, time, time, time, time, is on your side, is on your side, is on your side...


I don't know about that I'm not getting any younger.... and I have never been one to let grass grow under my feet however sometimes that is exactly what needs to be done. Thanks Brian from us.

Alex O just one...

Great discussion you guys have going on here. Just read through all of it and is very informative. Keep up the great work and hopefully I can contribute soon. I'm still trying to figure out my own version of the wobble.


@spindlewood, it ain't as easy as it looks, is it.... may I suggest the few indicator the better and none would be best. Watch the candle tails as the tell the inside story and after you get a trade under way if you keep tabs on the trade pips or price it will help as well to pick the next candle direction.
Thanks for the post.


Spindlewood, I agree with Rookie here. When I watched that 2-hour long video of Shawn trading, two things I most remember. He calmly said, "I'll fix that," when he was 180+ pips in the red on unrealized pips and he also said the candles at the top were showing that the buyers were "running out of steam." Those two things have changed my trading.
I'm less worried now and more confident that I can fix things, although I'm still willing to be wrong and bail out early if I'm too early in my entry. I'm also far more likely to use the candle wicks as an indication of future price direction. Wicks at the top seem to indicate an upside move nearing the end and wicks at the bottom signal a potential end to a downtrend.
I've also improved my perspective on whether I'm buying near the top or selling near the bottom, as I don't want to be the last trader who entered that trend. Patience is easier to find than are reversals and sometimes waiting and watching is a great (and inexpensive) way to gain an understanding of market trends and changes.
The analysis of Shawn's trading is something I would never have thought to do myself and I have a world of gratitude for Rookie and Rob for putting all of this together for fellow bees.
Today I graduated from Silver II and have one last Silver level to get through and I'll be golden! I don't think I would have come this far this fast without this Forum thread.
So, thanks again, to all who are willing to share and contribute to the success of the hive.
I'm feeling the "warm and fuzzies" here and have no qualms about sharing my good feelings through my comments in the Forums.


Thanks Brian for the kind words for both of us and congratulations on silver 3! See you in Gold soon! Fair warning, learn to trade with 0.01Q way before you get to G2... just saying.


I've always thought a long wick at the top of the candle means the bears are "pushing down" and a long wick at the bottom meant the bulls are "pushing up".
Here's a link if you want to check it out:

Best of luck!(and patience and discipline)



1lynnsc - Yes, that confirms what I was saying. Wicks at the top are bearish, wicks at the bottom are bullish.


Another excellent Trading Room session yesterday.

Often, there are so many lines on the chart Shawn is moving around, it's hard to spot what exactly he does.
In yesterdays session, it was very nice to see how he uses the TP lines to move it slightly above the open sell order to
get taken out with a small loss.

This as we had discussed before, the 'Hardstop' S/L lines stay outside the area of value, the losses are taken by moving the
TP lines towards the price for a negative takeout.

Also good takeaway in this sense is that Shawn said yesterday his average S/L is something around 2-3 pip.

Once the Trading Room recording is available, I'm putting this with pointers into the doc.

Very touching story at the end also, when Shawn told us Laurens background story (the 3rd Trader on the Street).


Rob, the Lauren Story is inspiring for all of us but especially these that have been dealt a real physical or mental hardship and there are several that I know of in the Apiary fund. As a side note thoses that I know of are all G3 (with the exception of me.... ) and doing quite well.

The training room yesterday Shawn showed great restraint and explained how and why not to get ahead of PA and place counter trades in that situation. I have found this to be a very difficult concept to grasp as it is counter intuitive.

BTW Nte which we didn't see trade that much on this session did work out of a fairly bad negative position.


I played with this strategy for most of this week and had one of my best weeks scalping (I don't get to do it often) on the USD/JPY at 10:30pm central. Usually a little slow at that time. I got stuck letting the last couple of trades ride with rolled back SL (>40). I went to bed and got burned on one and had three 28 pip losses when it whipsawed and I couldn't move the stops fast enough. Kind of kills the average.

Thanks guys for your work on this thread. A lot of data and practical information. One of the best I've found so far! I will review as much of it as I can this weekend and start refining the strategy for my comfort.


@tpackard34, thanks for checking out this thread and especially for truing it. As you may have read my biggest preble has been dealing with channel breakouts. Sounds like that happened to you. While I do sleep from time to time and maybe more often if I had a pretty gal like yours but never during a scalping session. When scalping I trade on the 1M chart and and use the 5M chart on the side. What time frame are you scalping on that you could take a nap? For me especially when scalping or have short term trades I will make sure they are closed before I leave my desk. I will only leave trades running if they are long swing trades or over night trades. And I still get burnt from time to time with spikes. I think it was last night NZD had a 150 pip spike out of nowhere (which is why I stopped trading with NZD a while back) no news nada, it was a trape but usually it doesn't open so wide. So because I'm not going to place a 200 pip SL on and overnight trade NZD is back off my list of potential pairs.

Please provide some feedback next week and the more time you get to watch Shawn trade the greater the understanding of practicing the Shawn wobble.

Aussie John

Great work guys. Very helpful. Shawn trades on his knowledge and insight with the EURUSD based on his many years experience trading this pair. The more we watch and learn from the trading room ( and trade ) we should all become more proficient with this strategy. Your document helps put this into a visual reference we can keep going over. Well done

BTW who is it that is in Australia and where


@Aussie John, we thank you for the great kudo.
BTW Not sure who you mean "BTW who is it that is in Australia and where" with this question? another hint maybe ...