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Silver II :-P

 

Silver II :-P

I just passed to silver II and all thanks to the summit. So go to the SUMMIT, you won't regret it!

Wed, 06/20/2018 - 2:42am
 
rosiegrima71

Hi congratulations on passing Silver 11. i am still stuggleing to pass the 50 pips on one trade.

 
timber85

Congrats on silver II

 
markabeach

Congrats on passing Silver II. I have been struggling to pass Silver II for over a month. Thankfully, I am just about finished. Today is my fifth day in a row of profitable trading and I will be done, except for the test, which I will pass next. So, I too, will be announcing my completion of Silver II tomorrow and I'll begin Silver III. Hopefully, it won't take as long?

 
cdowis

HELP!

Suggestions for getting 100 pips in one day. Thought abt hedging but that would mess me up on the 20 pip loss limit. Not sure of the penalty for that.

 
davidlatham02

Congratulations! I just got to Silver 2 about 2 hours ago and am pretty excited!

 
RLashbrook

Finally made it to Silver II, not sure what they mean by "no intertrade loss potential than 4 pips". Does it mean my stops have to be the same for all of the trades (within 4 pips), or that my stop for a trade can't be more than 4 pips?

 
cdowis

It basically means to place your stop loss just below 4 when placing the trade.

 
huntb44

Don't Hedge and be wary of that 20 pip requirement, it will cost you time cdowis. 100 pips is not hard. Focus on the 240 and daily charts and look for S/R levels where there are a number of candles that caused price to move in a certain direction. When it gets there place a .01 order in the direction of the prior move. If Price retreated last time, it is likely to do so again and place a hard stop inside the 20 pip stop maximum. Catch a few good trades that day with some scalps and cheers you got it.

 
dbdata3yk

NEED HELP !!!
I'M in silver 2 but stuck with emoti tag trader,,,,,,,,please give any advice

thankssssssssssssss

 
Ema A

Congrats to all on Silver II

 
cyoungfba

Emoti-Tag.
Not sure if I understand your issue, but after you place a trade using One Click go back in using Modify Trade and set an emoji.

 
dbdata3yk

THANK

 
blomst7

Finally Silver II. What does the "Maintain no trade going against you more than 20 pips" mean exactly. I have achieved it without knowing how to understand it, but also I am worried not to know how to maintain it thru the entire Silver 2. Any help???

 
blomst7

Hmmm. About the 20 pips loss to avoid. Is it that simple, that I just put my stop loss on 19? If so, that should be easy enough.

 
Exchange

Yes, Silver 2 continues to tighten the risk management parameters, allowing you to get a feel for trading closer your entry, while still allowing plenty of room for the trade to work. Also, it is that simple - took me some time to realize that myself!

 
blomst7

My problem is, that I have more losses, than wins, when I use Stoploss so close. Normally I get them totally out of my way, and I get plenty of wins.

 
TraderHewitt

Blomst7, yes, the 20 pip thing means no MAE greater than 20 pips. I.e you cannot let a trade run out to a 30 pip loss, then close it when it comes back to a 10 pip loss, the fact that it ever went to more than a 20 pip loss means you failed the task.

Apiary execution or liquidity is pretty poor at times, I saw slippage of nearly a pip often during the rush tasks.
I would not set my SL more than 18 pips, and for trades I let run overnight (into Asia at least) I set a 16 pip SL.

And yes, it is an issue, I think what Exchange said would theoretically be the logic behind it, they want you to try enter closer to where you are wrong, not a bad thing in practice.

However, it is an issue if you trade bigger swings, and a 20 (18 on Alveo) SL is not a logical stop for the market.

What you said above though, that's the issue here, provided by "totally out the way" you mean placed in a logical manner in relation to a cohesive strategy.

If you mean, "50 pips away so I get lots of 5 pip winners", then this task is likely for you, as you will probably struggle with this in long run, at first running losers out cos it "always comes back" seems great, but it always comes back to bite you, and you blow up your accounts (just look how many people here post saying how they were doing great then suddenly blew out the 5% limit when it went wrong).

To get funded you need an avg win > avg loss anyways, so a big loss, high win rate strategy won't cut it, I know you can fix the beeline, but what will you do on your live account then when you cannot fix your stats?

 
blomst7

@TraderHewitt. Thank you for your comments. I have some questions to that.
How do I improve " not being wrong". I use Stochastic 5,3,3 or 21,7,7 but I admit, that I often am too quick , not waiting for the candle to finish, when it changes direction. I trade several (or all) crosses at the same time, going from one chart to another, as I have them preloaded already ordered after time and market. My setup is
quantity 0.3, TP 45, SL 15. Or the speedy one Qu 0.03, TP 10, SL6 used in Silver II because of the 20 Pips limitation. For me it's like being put to jail. :)
In Silver II I have struggled very hard now since sept 26 and all I get is a smaller acount day after day. And every day I think, I want to regain my account, so I better make a lot of trades, and then it goes wrong again, instead of just making the 5 winning trades a day 5 days in a row. ;) and go on to Silver III.
As a true 7 (Numerology) and Sagitarian AND Agressive Intuitive Trader, my Risk Management has been SL 300 away and TP 10 or 20 or higher over night, and most of the time it worked pretty good for me, 70% win rate. But avg win/loss was not achieved, as you mention also in your comment. Few big losses and many smaller wins. I am new to Forex trading and try to figure out how to do it the proper and right way using my logic sense and trying out some of the strategies I pick up on Youtube and here in the Forum also, but how can I succeed? And what would be a logical SL for the market.
I have managed to get to Silver II totally on my own, but I see the necessity of being much more strategic and disciplined, my very NOT so good side. Luckily i am able to laugh at my own mistakes, and a few times my computer was in danger of landing on the street, but I am not a quitter, and also I could not afford a new one anyway, so...
TraderHewitt, I really would appreciate if you could help me, as I see, that you fully understand where I am at, and what I am fighting┬┤, thank you.

 
JayTea

Congrats Vadim! I would LOVE to go to a summit, or the cruise.

To blomst7: Learn more systems. If you like setting a 300 pip SL and a 20 TP then you are going to have ongoing pain, as you have already realized. You CAN have a reverse RR ratio and be profitable, but from what you said your system isn't working. That kind of SL is also problematic when you get into a pre-fund $1000 account, hitting that kind of SL even with a .01 lot size will be a deal breaker for your risk-management. Nobody likes Alveo to turn different colors...

Even if you are uncomfortable with scalping, I'd recommend you delve back into it to get you used to high probability trades. Then you can take what you learned on lower time-frames and apply it to your preferred methods on longer time-frames and with bigger profits per trade.

With the system you described you evidently will have to clean up your statistics. The fastest way to do that and at the same time learn (earn while you learn!) is to scalp. By scalping I mean doing so with a system. "Wobbling" is very very effective but you will need to learn to cut losses dispassionately. Watch Shawn wobble and you will see exactly what to do.

1. Watch this. https://apiaryfund.com/training/discussion/trading-room-373

2. Read this next: https://apiaryfund.com/forum/shawns-volatility-play-anything-documented?...

3. Adapt your SL/TP to the pair you know best and have at it.

You'll be glad you did. It's still a demo account, you won't break it.

 
hajis

made it to silver 2!!!!!! damn it lokks hard.. Let the games begin!

 
TraderHewitt

Hi Blomst

First, sorry may statement was not clear ...

>>How do I improve " not being wrong"

Sorry, I did not mean "being wrong" as in taking a loosing trade, I meant, the logic behind the task is likely get people to trade to enter their positions closer to the point at which they feel the trade is not going to go well, i..e enter closer to where you stop-loss would normally be (this is much easier said than done however)

It is likely also to rein in people trading with very very bad R, as in your case, 20:300 - this is going to end very badly one day, seems fine at first but a couple of bad beats wipes out months of work.

>>And what would be a logical SL for the market.

I meant simply, picking 300 pips for a SL at random is not good. A logical stop-loss would depend totally on your system, but ideally it would be where you felt that the market should not go, i..e if it went there you trade idea was wrong and you cut your losses. Where this is though is totally variable.

A fixed stop like you have is also fine, but like Jay said, ensure you adapt to the pair you trade, consider that volatility is not constant , so you may find you need to raise or lower the stop as market goes through cycles, often a multiple of ATR works, and ensure you don't just pick a stop-loss cos of something you read on the internet or somebody told you, ensure you backtest and check the stop works for your system (unless you trade a system from say here where thats been done for you, except here the few things I have seen on systems have been very wishy-washy on the exact locations for stops etc, but I have not studied them much)

I think what you are doing it good, trying out strategies. Eventually one finds something that works for you, probably a personalized combination of existing strategies, some people just get lucky out the door, others take a while to get comfortable.

The links Jay provided are good ,though I don't entirely agree that you should be forced to scalp Shawn style if you do not like that kind of focused very short term trading. You should be allowed to focus on the style of trading that suits you. I am also not so sure how much the concepts from high-frequency scalping with carry over to longer timeframes, but maybe.

However the beeline has very high trade volume requirements, and many tasks are suited to scalping (I actually get the feeling they was to encourage high-volume trading , i.e. generate lots of commissions when funded and carry little over-night or weekend risk)

That said I do agree that the more you trade the quicker you learn, trading swing style like I started (well my second start!) you only trade quite infrequently, so as a scalper you can put on more trades in a day than I would in a month or two, i..e you see more market time and learn quicker.

The Wobble is quite awesome, not sure I can do it, but it is great, and I am also wanting to try learn it (or adapt it)

I want to add a word of warning though, my opinion. Ensure you use a technique like that as part of a well-formed strategy. I feel that this kind of trading is well liked, its active, and caters for 2 main trading vices, cutting winners early and letting loosers run ("its ok, I'll fix it")

Shawn has been doing this for years, so he has a strategy around it, he does not just do it to not realize losses. Also take note he trades a 0.1 position size on a $250k account , if you want to trade the same way with same risk, you would need a minimum $25k account, just wanted to point that out before you steam into a $1k account doing this.

>> I want to regain my account, so I better make a lot of trades

Whilst that is a good goal for long term learning, remember there is nothing in beeline about have a positive balance in Silver, mine is under and I could care less, only later do you need to maintain a positive expectancy, unless you want to practice, don't risk failing tasks to regain balance (though if you are very inexperienced you are going to need practice)
.

>> just making the 5 winning trades a day 5 days in a row

It does not have to be 5 winning trades, can be winning and loosing, just net positive IN $ (watch this, Alveo does not show you $ total, only % and pip total, so you can have a positive pip total, be on 0.0% return and have lost money because of commissions, you are safe when % is green, otherwise ensure you have enough positive pips to cover commissions too)

>> I trade several (or all) crosses at the same time, going from one chart to another

If you are taking signals from multiple charts at once, be careful, or you risk exposure will be much higher than you think. You will see people post "hey i made 1000 pips being long GBPUSD GBPNZD GBPAUD GBPCHF GBPZAR etc, i'm such a ledge", remember this is a highly correlated trade, all have GBP in it, so a adverse move would have not ended well.

Same thing, if you find a long signal in EURUSD, long AUDUSD and short USDJPY at same time form example, remember if u take all at once you have heavy exposure to USD component, so it can go wrong quickly.

>> quantity 0.3,/ 0.03

Also, I think its better to trade minimum size in evaluation, trade 0.01, why would u need to trade higher? Minimize any chance of hitting draw-down limits.

It also best to put more trades on at once, i..e instead of trading 0.03, put on 3 0.01 lot trades, then u get credit for 3 trades instead of one. Far as i can see, unless you scalp many times a day, for normal day traders doing 2-4 trades a day this is the only way to get the trade volume requirements (600) to get to G3 without taking literally a year+.

 
TraderHewitt

Wanted to add, don't stress the beeline too much, the trading conditions represented in beeline are not realistic.

Beeline puts a heavy emphasis on the outcome of each individual trade or trading day (ie. must be a winner as you must get 10 in a row).

For example, yesterday I did my a$$, but ground it back till I was just a couple of pips under, then my internet went out just before I could put the last trade on that would have left me positive. If that was my live account, so long as I have followed my rules, that would have a been a fine day by any count, so long as more days in say the last 20 ended positive, but according to beeline that's a failure and I have to start the 5/5 task again.

This is not how traders measure performance, in real trading conditions much less emphasis is placed on winning every trade or n trades in a row, (e.g. even with a 70% strike rate there is a 96% chance of seeing 2 loosers in a row over a 50 trade sample set) and only on maintaining stats over a series of trades.

Personally, looking at yesterdays performance, I have realized that as I have been focusing mainly on beeline the past couple of weeks, its nature (high emphasis on outcome of each trade plus rewarding you for cutting early) has a very negative impact on someone like myself whose main demons are cutting trades early and fear of giving back p&l, to the extent that these old habits are back with significant vengeance, undoing all my work of the last months over-coming these.

Once we get out of S2 its gets better, and performance is measured over a series of trades as it should be, so hang in there! :)

 
RJay

I just made Silver 2 last night.

Congrats to everybody else that just got Silver 2.

Was up all night....just have 3 trades x 20 pips,a 50-pip trade,5 days of profitable trades, and
the balance of 100 trades left to do.
No problem getting 10-pip trades, but the market seemed that it just wasn't there for any 20,
let alone a 50-pip trade.
Figured i might be starting to "over-trade", so I decided to wait another day....weekend starts
in another 8 hours....

 
blomst7

To JayTea, Thanks for your reply. I agree about learning lots of more systems. About the 300 SL 20 TP. It is only a symbolic number, I do not calculate on loosing 300 pips, when I set it to 300. it is only to give plenty of space for a rollercoaster trip. I mostly trade short term and am out of the trade long before it ever would hit the 300. The good thing about it is, that is does not hit any stops on its way, so it can go undisturbed up and down and building up momentum for some hours until I take it out or TP is reached. Only if a hughe rally takes place, there could be danger. I never have been stopped out because of my SL settings, but I am moreless konstantly being stopped out because of the very tight stops, and minus balance is created by fahr too many smaller stop outs. Also I usually adjust the stop after I have set Fibonacci, so I know where I am. My statistics showed until Silver II, that my win/loss ratio is not reached because I had a very few too big losses and plenty of small wins, enough to put me in 70% wins.
Well, it took me some time to finally decide, NOT to be on HOPIUM and move that SL line down and down hoping for it to get back sooner than Alveo changed colour. To cut losses dispassionately is not so easy, it takes some time to let go without a bleeding heart.

I am familiar with both wobbling and scalping and use them also from time to time, when there is a need for that. Actually I do a lot of things I even do not know the names of, I do them intuitively or logically per reflex. After reading posts and watching videos I say, Oh it has a name, great!
I looked at the links you gave me, but there was not many news in that.

 
blomst7

TraderHewitt, thanks for you very long analyses, but we are so different, that it is nearly impossible to figure out, what I am doing also besides the one thing with the hughe SL. (smile)

Take a look at my comments to JayTea about the 300 SL.
Don't worry about the volume of trades. During my 54 days in Silver 1 and Silver 2 i made 4247 trades, so I should be OK.
Logical SL for the market, I thought there might be certain numbers, which fit better than others. Like 3 candles up and 1 down, or 8 candles up and 4 down etc. Never mind, I'll find out.

I trade all GBP's and also the EUR and USD and the others too. and I am aware of the midday volatility. I live in Denmark, so I am on GMT time. Act├║ally I am sitting and waiting for it to start. Mostly I have both buy and sell orders running.

Quantity 0.3 was a typo, it should have been 0.03, which is suitable for me, also it reduces the numbers of positions, and gives more profit. I trade for profit, not for Pips, once funded.

About the 5 days and 5 trades, you are right, I had misunderstood that one. Thanks.

The only thing I should improve is NOT to overtrade, as I put too many trades on and suddenly I am out of control. That's all there is. And offcourse I hate the 20 SL, but that will be over in the next profitavle 5 days, and then out of Silver 2 and into Silver 3.
But thanks for your efforts to try to help me out, see you in S3.

 
TraderHewitt

Blomst,

Thats the thing with trading isn't it, everyone is different, and uses different techniques, we could both disagree vehemently on whether the others strategy will work, yet over long run we will both make money, its one of the tings that makes trading great, but also very hard to master

>>Take a look at my comments to JayTea about the 300 SL.

Ok, so its more like a disaster stop. If you disaster stop is so big (thats nearly 3x the daily ATR of most majors right now I think, so that makes it very very wide disaster stop), I can see why its nearly impossible for you to survive with a 20 pip stop, as your disaster stop will be just outside your expected maximum MAE, thats way over 20. That what sucks about beeline, sometimes you just cannot use your strategy.

I cannot trade like you, floating a huge stop then taking it off the market when I think its done, so its hard to comment, but I can assume then you have rules for when to take the trade off? As in, you know when you are wrong? Perhaps you should move that 300 in to be more in line with the maximum loss you normally take? And have a different one for each pair to allow for differing volatility. That would help you in the event of an incident, and also with discipline, I would worry if the max stop is so much, after a poor period it may be very tempting to let the ups&downs play out more so as to not take another loss, which always ends badly.

If the market does blow out, or Alveo goes down for a day, hitting that loss would be very bad. And as its 3x daily ATR of say EU, that seems very excessive space to allow for the ups and downs to play out to take only 20 pips.

Also, IRL, your 300 pip stop will need to be 2% of your account (as Alveo will stop you out before then if not, and if you hit your 2% risk limit before 300 pips, why bother with such a big stop, it will just look bad to risk managers), this means you will need to be position sized very small (probably 0.01 if that) on your first funded account, which won't help, hence it might be good to reconsider this.

Don't mean to criticize, by all means carry on doing what works for your normally, just wanted to point this out, it makes me nervous thinking about trading like that of course!

Also, don't focus on the 70% win rate, that is one of your less important statistics, but one everyone is taught and focus on, people try to get as higher strike rate as they can to detriment of the more important EV.

I am sure you probably know, but with your potential SL size, ensure you maintain a positive EV or you will not progress through later stages in beeline (or get funded or make money!)

EV = (Win % x AveWin) - ( Loss % x AveLoss)
http://yourtradingcoach.com/trading-business/this-is-not-a-game-of-winni...

This is what matters, just because strike rate is higher does not imply higher EV if AW:AL ratio suffers. I can have a 50% strike rate but make more money because my losses are very small and wins much bigger (in fact many people I believe trade like 40% or less because each win is a high R multiple, but that's not allowed at Apiary)

Remember too that the higher the strike rate you need to maintain a positive EV the harder it can be to remain profitable over time, as a small drop in win rate can dramatically affect EV (which is why its so hard to make money in long run in Binary Options, as something like a 75%+ strike rate is needed as the R multiple is 0.6-0.7)

>>Logical SL for the market, I thought there might be certain numbers, which fit better than others.
>>Like 3 candles up and 1 down, or 8 candles up and 4 down etc. Never mind, I'll find out.

No, theres no such thing is trading, its very personal in some ways and many many different ways all work just fine.

One point to keep in mind however, there are certain common places everyone is taught to place stops, like at a major pivot/swing point, just remember that those liquidity pools are well known, no one knows where you personal stop is, don't listen to bs out there about not putting in a stop-loss cos of broker hunting etc, but do expect the market in general to move to those known pools (like a swing point) and take out your stops only to reverse on a semi-frequent basis.

>> it should have been 0.03, which is suitable for me, also it reduces the numbers of positions,
>>and gives more profit. I trade for profit, not for Pips, once funded.

OK thats fine, just remember in real money you will have an account 10x smaller than what you have now, ensure that if what you are developing now is going to be your strategy for your funded account that it will scale down.

i..e if you scale your lot size relatively to your account size, you will not be able to trade this way in funded as you need 3c a pip which is not given by Apiary (a nano lot). Maybe you can also scale down the number of positions to ensure you stay inside risk limits, I don't know your system, but just keep this in mind.

So in other words, if you are unsure, trade your $10k account as if it was a $1k acount for risk sizing (remember during beeline no-one cares how much profit you make, just ev,aw:al and pips in the drills).

I know people don't agree with me, but I think its wrong of Apiary to give a $10k account to learn on then stick you with $1k on pre-fund, from forum it looks like lots of people get stuck on this (i.e. they delay needing to give people funding)

 
radoslawmurawski

in silver 2 haha. i wonder how long will this one take

 
radoslawmurawski

im half way thru it already

 
Jeffs-Trading

I have read through a lot of these comments in this forum, and can truly say that I have faced all of these frustrations. I have lost so many times by trying to follow the S/L loss rules while at the same time trying to grow the account. For example, it was very tough to trying to make 3 to 5 pips with not losing more than 3 pips due to the whipsawing actions. I have a full time job working more than 10 hours a day and am not able to sit in front of the computer for hours trying to complete a task. I finally just started taking any profit at this time even if it was only .08 pips. That strategy finally got me through these. I am now left with tagging a few more trades with the
Emotitags and I will be completing Silver II and ready for Silver III.

 
blomst7

TraderHewitt, What i do is called Price Action.
Ok, so its more like a disaster stop, NO it is a stop that just is there being no-where, ready to be used after the first round placing all the trades in different markets and then I go in and adjust to the actual market and situation. If I had placed a STOP say at 8 from start, I would risk that I already was stopped out even before I had adjusted my trade in a volatile market. I make single trades, they are not combined to any system or other trades, other than I look at my statusline, so I know how many more trades I can afford..
All the analythical things you are telling me about, I cannot use, as I do not even understand the words. I am not a mathematician, I am a musician more and come from an artistic home and environment, but I have sence for figures and values.
In order for you to be able to sleep like a baby on my behalf, I better tell you exactly what I do.
First I run thru all the pairs in the open markets. I use Stochastic and 1 M charts and look for buy or sell opportunities. I set my orders acording to that and as a standard (depends on time of day/night) I set the values to TP 20 or more or even less, and SL 300. So it is there and can be used if I feel it would be appropried, OR the phone is ringing, or even a visit to the bathroom.. I can at any time take out my orders, its just a click on the red cross at the orders list, and I do when I feel that it would go too fahr against me, if I do not take the loss or profit at that moment, so I follow the market and not a system.. When I go for the adjustment round I draw a Fibonacci on every chart.
Lately I also look at the 4H to see overall direction. and make adjustments accordingly. I hope you can sleep well after this and let us never talk about my 300 STOP anymore. (smile) and continued happy trading.

.... I found my way thru Silver 2 and the 20 pips.. I start out setting SL to 18 and then a Fibonacci or just looking for the next nearerst shoulder to lean my SL on, that works, if I reduce my orders to say 5 or 6.simultaneously. There I still have control and can act before disaster i.e a stop out on maybe 8. .

As a closure I think that Apiary is testing our psykological reactions and skills by putting all these impossibilities on our shoulders. It is healthy, and kind of a sport too. And this has nothing to do with numbers, systems or trading, but a trader needs to have certain characteristics, and the beauty of it is, that they can be so diverse... .

 
TraderHewitt

Ok, sounds like you have it under control then! :)

I don't understand how you can position size if you don't know what you risk will be in advance, but I guess as we trade very different styles its just a matter of wrapping my head around it.

Interesting how you say you are not analytical but musical, I am the opposite, trained as software developer I am very analytical, which is why I struggle with trading, as my brain is wired to expect certainty. Its interesting because it may explain why each of us prefers a seemingly opposite style of trading!

As for the stats, these are important, but you don't need to do the math yourself, on your Statistics page your will see:

Average win* $x
Average loss* $-y
Expectancy* $z

Those are the figures you will need to watch, those numbers are based the number of trades you select higher up (20/50/100/etc).
The Average Win is the average size in $ of your winning trades, the Average Loss is the average size of your loosing trade and Expectancy is the EV I refered to above.

At the bottom of your statistics page there is a button 30-Day Stats, this shows same thing but for last 30 days.

These are what will be used in further beelines, you will need to ensure your winning trades are bigger than your loosing trades to keep Average Win higher than Average Loss, and related to that combined with winning often enough so Expectancy remains positive.

In beeline though its easy, in your Win gets to low, just make lots of trades that you close immediately for a tiny loss, like just spread and commissions, that should bring your Average Loss down and "fix" your stats (IMO anyways, as I am not there yet), but you will also need to have proper stats when funded, so if you have to fix all the way through Gold, hmm, you might have trouble at the very end (cos how will you fix a live account?)

But don't stress, with luck when we get the S3 there will be a more detailed explanation. If not and you are stuck, feel free to PM me.

 
radoslawmurawski

finally passed Silver II and onto Silver III

 
Rookie

@radoslawmurawski, you have done well, congrats! see you golde soon.